Gay Pastor's(xupc)recent Letter to the UPCI ! ! !

[Newman]

Conclusion
Oliver Thomas made a simple yet insightful observation regarding the state of the Church and its approach to homosexuality. “…whether sexual orientation arises as a result of the mother’s hormones, the child’s brain structure, or DNA, it is almost certainly an accident of birth. The point is this: Without choice, there can be no moral culpability…Watching the growing conflict between medical science and religion over homosexuality is like watching a train wreck from a distance. You can see it coming for miles and sense the inevitable conclusion, but you’re powerless to stop it. The more church leaders dig in their heels, the worse it’s likely to be.”

Copyright © 2007 New Life Community Church of Hope

From one of the many articles Chan had rebutting Rebuttal....

Future Biological Research
Will continuing research eventually find some overwhelming biological influences to produce homosexuality, or find that added together, all the biological influences are overwhelming? No. The twin studies prove that future research will never discover any overwhelming biological factors which compel homosexuality.

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My shorthand...

If homosexuality was one's biological destiny; there would NEVER be a set of identical twins that weren't the same sexual orientation. But alas twin studies already demonstrate that genes alone can't acount for people's choices.

[RevDWW]

Romans 1:25 - 32 (KJV) 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Revelation 21:27 (KJV) 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Revelation 22:14 - 15 (KJV) 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that would change God's truth into a lie and serve their own desires above that of the Creator's, will not make it into the Kingdom, unless they repent. Being a homosexual is living a lie.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am not sure how "base" we will be allowed to post in offering dissenting views to one or more of the points listed in this letter found on Brad Boivin's New Hope Church website.

If God determined that a man would love a man in the same union of the marriage experience that he designed for a man and a woman, he provided NO HEALTHY design for that marriage to include sexual relationships.

Sodomy is inherently destructive to the wonderfully functional design of the relatively thin and delicate tissue of the colon. God NEVER designed the human body for such actions to be perpetrated. The witness of this truth is evident in the resultant damage and breeching of the cardiovascular system and the rampant exposure to bacteria.

So, unless this author is adovocating the life of a eunuch for every male homosexual, he needs to be forthright and plain in his acknowledgement that sodomy is fully contrary to God's wonderful design of the human body.

So Brian, do the right thing and take sexual activity out of the male homosexual lifestyle.

I must say, you have a unique way of expressing yourself.

[Carpenter]

Sorry guys, either I don't have the attention span or I just don't care a whole lot about this topic enough to read the volumes of posts found in just four pages.

In fact, this post is too long.

Newman, Ferd, MOW, S I-90.

While you all have rushed to congratulate Chan on his excellent words as though they were words sent down from heaven by an ark-angel, do you all also agree that what homosexuals do to each other in their same sex bedrooms on the same par with lying, as Chan has stated?

The wife and I were talking a few days ago about the extreme change in the thinking in todays world from the days when we were very young. It is as though it is a weird world that we are unaquainted with.

Example: Today I heard of a school kid placing his ham sandwich on the lunch room. The school went into a panic. It is unknown what will happen to the poor confused kid. It seems that the Muslim kids were greatly offended. The kid is in big trouble and will undergo sensitivity training and possibly disciplined and sent to another school.

The warped mentality of this today's world is leaving me as a total stranger here.

Newman, Rhoni, MOW and all. I love you all very much. But, I am totally shocked at this new attitude toward homosexuality. I've said it before. Seeing the rapid change of public mentality that has crept into the church, I fully expect that the UPC will debate ordaining homosexual preachers, if the Lord tarries long enough.

Lying is NOT on the same par with what homos do to each other. God never destroyed two cities because the people told lies. NEVER. There are degrees of abomonations. When someone lies, he can be redeemed. When someone falls into the homosexual lifestyle, the spirit of it is so powerful that the mind becomes totally reprobated. Few, precious few are ever redeemed from it.

Anyway, I am surprised. But, I am told that I should not be.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Newman, Ferd, MOW, S I-90.

While you all have rushed to congratulate Chan on his excellent words as though they were words sent down from heaven by an ark-angel, do you all also agree that what homosexuals do to each other in their same sex bedrooms on the same par with lying, as Chan has stated?

The wife and I were talking a few days ago about the extreme change in the thinking in todays world from the days when we were very young. It is as though it is a weird world that we are unaquainted with.

Example: Today I heard of a school kid placing his ham sandwich on the lunch room. The school went into a panic. It is unknown what will happen to the poor confused kid. It seems that the Muslim kids were greatly offended. The kid is in big trouble and will undergo sensitivity training and possibly disciplined and sent to another school.

The warped mentality of this today's world is leaving me as a total stranger here.

Newman, Rhoni, MOW and all. I love you all very much. But, I am totally shocked at this new attitude toward homosexuality. I've said it before. Seeing the rapid change of public mentality that has crept into the church, I fully expect that the UPC will debate ordaining homosexual preachers, if the Lord tarries long enough.

Lying is NOT on the same par with what homos do to each other. God never destroyed two cities because the people told lies. NEVER. There are degrees of abomonations. When someone lies, he can be redeemed. When someone falls into the homosexual lifestyle, the spirit of it is so powerful that the mind becomes totally reprobated. Few, precious few are ever redeemed from it.

Anyway, I am surprised. But, I am told that I should not be.

Brother Strange- From an eternal point of view; both lying and homosexuality will get you to hell.

However, I do believe and agree with you that sexual sin carries much greater consequences in this life and in fact too often has far reaching effects on others as well. Most lies are not so hard to live with and not so destructive to the soul of others and can be repented of without years of anquish.

Furthermore; I am not going to get to bothered by Chan's position on this because he clearly sees in black and white only. One can clearly see this given his response to the shootings last week.

I will say one more thing... As much as I dislike much of what Chan posts and his hateful and condescending writing style; I have never walked in his shoes and had to overcome what he has. I have to repect that about him.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Newman, Ferd, MOW, S I-90.

While you all have rushed to congratulate Chan on his excellent words as though they were words sent down from heaven by an ark-angel, do you all also agree that what homosexuals do to each other in their same sex bedrooms on the same par with lying, as Chan has stated?

The wife and I were talking a few days ago about the extreme change in the thinking in todays world from the days when we were very young. It is as though it is a weird world that we are unaquainted with.

Example: Today I heard of a school kid placing his ham sandwich on the lunch room. The school went into a panic. It is unknown what will happen to the poor confused kid. It seems that the Muslim kids were greatly offended. The kid is in big trouble and will undergo sensitivity training and possibly disciplined and sent to another school.

The warped mentality of this today's world is leaving me as a total stranger here.

Newman, Rhoni, MOW and all. I love you all very much. But, I am totally shocked at this new attitude toward homosexuality. I've said it before. Seeing the rapid change of public mentality that has crept into the church, I fully expect that the UPC will debate ordaining homosexual preachers, if the Lord tarries long enough.

Lying is NOT on the same par with what homos do to each other. God never destroyed two cities because the people told lies. NEVER. There are degrees of abomonations. When someone lies, he can be redeemed. When someone falls into the homosexual lifestyle, the spirit of it is so powerful that the mind becomes totally reprobated. Few, precious few are ever redeemed from it.

Anyway, I am surprised. But, I am told that I should not be.

I think sin is sin. Sin cannot enter There. But there are sins that are stronger and harder to repent of, to turn away from, then others. Suppose someone stole a loaf of bread because they were hungry and someone else robbed a resturaut becuase of a bad drug habit. Which would be easy to break free of and turn around from? Both will get you roasted if you do not repent.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Newman

Brother Strange- From an eternal point of view; both lying and homosexuality will get you to hell.

However, I do believe and agree with you that sexual sin carries much greater consequences in this life and in fact too often has far reaching effects on others as well. Most lies are not so hard to live with and not so destructive to the soul of others and can be repented of without years of anquish.

Furthermore; I am not going to get to bothered by Chan's position on this because he clearly sees in black and white only. One can clearly see this given his response to the shootings last week.

I will say one more thing... As much as I dislike much of what Chan posts and his hateful and condescending writing style; I have never walked in his shoes and had to overcome what he has. I have to repect that about him.

Newman, I agree with you. All sin will land one in hell...but, as you said, and others have inferred...sexual sins are sins against one's self and the other party involved and have far reaching effects on families, friends, and communities which cannot be denied.

We, as people, have our own ideas of which sin is greater, but the fact remains....ALL sin gets one a one-way ticket to the pit. I for one, see molestation of children as the greatest sin...at least , for most part...the homeosexual sin is between two consenting adults. The two consenting adults sin against themselves, each other, as well as God. I feel more threatened by pedophiles than I do about homosexuals although all are sins.

Sincerely, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Just to clarify...I see the practice of homosexual behaviors as a Biblical sin, but I do not hate homosexuals...I am a counselor that is a Christian and will help any of those who are caught in the spirit of homosexuality to break free from satan's hold on their life. I too respect Chan, and others who have turned their backs on the practice of homosexual behavior even if they live the rest of their lives celibate...just like the rest of us singles!

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by Newman

Brother Strange- From an eternal point of view; both lying and homosexuality will get you to hell.

However, I do believe and agree with you that sexual sin carries much greater consequences in this life and in fact too often has far reaching effects on others as well. Most lies are not so hard to live with and not so destructive to the soul of others and can be repented of without years of anquish.

Furthermore; I am not going to get to bothered by Chan's position on this because he clearly sees in black and white only. One can clearly see this given his response to the shootings last week.

I will say one more thing... As much as I dislike much of what Chan posts and his hateful and condescending writing style; I have never walked in his shoes and had to overcome what he has. I have to repect that about him.

Sis...

I agree. Sin is sin and all sin will be cast into hell right along with the unrepentant that clings to it. That is a given. My point was to the degree of abominations involved.

While I am not sure what you are speaking of concerning the things that he has had to to overcome, if he only thinks in black and white with no degrees of variation in view, he is a very fragile vessel indeed. I must have compassion for him.

Concerning sexual sins, it appears that the sin of homosexuality is placed on the same level of all sexual sins. Here, I would disagree also. Homosexual sins are so abominal to a sane mind as to be almost unthinkable. Adultery is a horrible sin but there is none so black and perverted as a homosexual sin.

I am reminded of how Napoleon felt about it. He had the homosexuals shot during a battle by his own men. The sin was such an unspeakable abomination that I was almost an adult before I ever heard of it. When I first learned about it and what they do to each other in their same-sex bedrooms, I was shocked beyond belief.

Time are different now. Today, they are legally getting married to each other. They are in-your-face with it, flaunting it as something glorious. Then when I heard about homosexual Apostolic Churches, I wondered what am I doing here on this planet. It has become a weird and grotesque planet with a gorgoyle population, much of which is in the church.