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  #31  
Old 07-31-2009, 03:32 PM
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KWSS1976 KWSS1976 is offline
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

That is truly sad?
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  #32  
Old 07-31-2009, 03:34 PM
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

I guess they don't believe God is bigger then the devil so I don't guess they have as much faith as they thought they did.
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  #33  
Old 07-31-2009, 03:34 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWSS1976 View Post
That is truly sad?
It is sad, but more then that it infuriates me.
They were well on their way to owning a few acres of land and having a couple dozen or so disciples planting crops while Dale sat in the main house and "contemplated messages from God" all day.

I am not saying they were specifically planning that, but were/are of the right state of mind to completely jump off the deep end into sequestered cult territory.

Last edited by RandyWayne; 07-31-2009 at 03:36 PM.
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  #34  
Old 07-31-2009, 03:38 PM
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

O no not the "C" word...
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  #35  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:21 PM
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Fiyahstarter Fiyahstarter is offline
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

A pastor I knew was told he had throat cancer. The doctors recommended chemo/radiation whichever, I'm not sure. The pastor felt sure that God would heal him. He really struggled with the idea of the treatments, as he felt it minimized his "faith in God". (I can understand his feeling here, and think I would have felt the same.)

He did finally get the treatments, at the convincing of his wife and his Sr. Pastor. And he WAS cured.

Could he/Would he have still been healed had he NOT gone to the doctor and followed through with the treatments?

Thoughts?

Last edited by Fiyahstarter; 08-01-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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  #36  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:50 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

There is a passage in the book of Ecclesiasticus (also known as "The Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach" or just "Sirach") that speaks of medication and treatment by a doctor. This book is found in the older King James Version Bibles but was later deleted. It is also found in several of the Bible versions I have at home.

Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15 reads:

1 Honour physicians for their services,
for the Lord created them;
2 for their gift of healing comes from the Most High,
and they are rewarded by the king.
3 The skill of physicians makes them distinguished,
and in the presence of the great they are admired.
4 The Lord created medicines out of the earth,
and the sensible will not despise them.
5 Was not water made sweet with a tree
in order that its power might be known?
6 And he gave skill to human beings
that the pharmacist might be glorified in his marvellous works.
7 By them the physician heals and takes away pain;
8 the pharmacist makes a mixture from them.
God’s works will never be finished;
and from him health spreads over all the earth.
9 My child, when you are ill, do not delay,
but pray to the Lord, and he will heal you.
10 Give up your faults and direct your hands rightly,
and cleanse your heart from all sin.
11 Offer a sweet-smelling sacrifice, and a memorial portion of choice flour,
and pour oil on your offering, as much as you can afford.
12 Then give the physician his place, for the Lord created him;
do not let him leave you, for you need him.
13 There may come a time when recovery lies in the hands of physicians,
14 for they too pray to the Lord
that he will grant them success in diagnosis
and in healing, for the sake of preserving life.
15 a man sins in the eyes of his Maker
if he defies the physician.

Verse 15 can be linked to Proverbs 18:9. In some versions of the LXX it is used by some to show that God expects us to have enough sense to use whatever means (medical and other) are available.

"He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide."

and remember that the Apostle Paul advised Timothy to drink wine instead of water because of his stomach problems and many infirmities (see 1 Timothy 5:23)
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  #37  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:53 PM
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

Jesus said that those who are sick need a physician in Matthew 9:12

and Proverbs 17:22 says that medicine does good.
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  #38  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:58 PM
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

I teach that God heals in different ways:

1. Natural healing. This is the way our body which is fearfully and wonderfully made responds to injury and sickness. If a bone is broken, it heals back in time. If there is a cut or gash, the body bleeds, then the area scabs over while healing takes place. Infections are fought by the body. Some times a heart produces new arteries for a natural bypass.

2. Assisted healing. Over time we have discovered certain herbs, manufactured drugs, procedures, etc. which assist healing. We have pain medications like aspirin, motrin, etc. that fight pain. We have antibiotics that fight infection. We sew up a wound so that the natural healing is facilitated. We set a bone, aligning it properly, so it is properly aligned when healing takes place. Surgery removes damaged organs and keeps the damage from spreading. Radiation and chemotherapy can kill cancer.

3. Accelerated healing. We see this often. Some times a person heals or recovers with assisted healing, but the process is greatly accelerated. Recovery may come much sooner than anticipated by the doctor because God has accelerated the natural or assisted healing process.

4. Miracle. Some times God acts and healing or recovery takes place when it was not expected to. People who have been told that they will die shortly are still alive years later. There is no explanation other than the intervention of God.

5. Ultimate healing. Any healing in this life, no matter how spectacular, is just temporary. This human body will die some day. That's an appointment we all must keep. When we die, our body goes to the grave, crematorium or whatever and our inner person goes to be with Jesus. That inner person in the presence of Jesus is sound, well, and whole. At the first resurrection our body will be raised incorruptible and immortal
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  #39  
Old 08-01-2009, 04:00 PM
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Fiyahstarter Fiyahstarter is offline
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Re: This might of been on the forum already

Good stuff, Sam. Thanks. (again)
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