Apostolic Litumus Test: Do you affirm - Yes or no?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Bingo.......Dan will give you a $$$ prize!

I'm still holding on to it since no one can point out a post where I say baptism is optional but if RG would like a loan ...

[Ron]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Good thing you quoted that verse. There is no other savign name, but baptism don't save ya bro. So that verse does not fit in context, good try though.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This verse might be one of the most taken out context verses used by 3 steppers ...

1. The religious elite of Jerusalem .... Annas, Caiphas and others asked a very simple and direct question to Peter and John ... and they defined what they meant by name ....

in verse 7 they ask....

And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

They were asking under who's authority or power have you been preaching...

2. Peter answers with the personage ... not the articulation of a name.

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,


9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;


10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.


11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.


12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

-----------------------------------------------------

He is speaking of the person of Jesus Christ ... and that they were standing before them under His authority ..

He then says there is no salvation outside of any other ... other than Jesus Christ ...

This is the part of verse 12 that is cropped out of the lips of 3 steppers ... they only quote the latter half of a verse that is dealing w/ authority rather than the articulation of a name during a properly administered baptism.

Context is everything ... yet 3 steppers love to use Scripture in isolation.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Talking about what is Apostolic, the Apostles had it clear what God wanted!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Ron

Talking about what is Apostolic, the Apostles had it clear what God wanted!

Ron,

I am, along w/ other 1 steppers are, in your corner as to the Apostolic message also commanding baptism in His name as part of a believer's initial conversion ...

This baffles me .... why you find it necessary to reiterate this when there is no confusion to this being foundational?

Listing Scripture in response to my post still does not address how the Scripture in Acts 4 is taken out of context ...

I appreciate your love for truth ... but listing verses about baptism and they being administered under the authority of Jesus is somewhat redundant among this crowd.

Would you care to add the exegesis given about what Peter meant in this passage?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Ron

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Talking about what is Apostolic, the Apostles had it clear what God wanted!

Lengthy post to tell us what exactly? Look, baptism was and is a sign of joining with Jesus. It is a public display that you have chosen the path of following Jesus, openly identifying with Him and His teachings. By the way Ron repentance is for remission of sins isn't it? If not then why can and does Jesus fill people that are still dirty, cause they haven't been baptized, with His pure spirit? They have obviously repented and they must be sin free at that point cause I do not see that Jesus would fill us with His spirit and us still being sinners and unclean.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Ron,

I am, along w/ other 1 steppers, are in your corner as to the Apostolic message also commanding baptism in His name as part of a believer's initial conversion ...

This baffles me .... why you find it necessary to reiterate this when there is no confusion to this being foundational?

Listing Scripture in response to my post still does not address how the Scripture in Acts 4 is taken out of context ...

I appreciate you love for truth ... but listing verses about baptism and they being administered under the authority of Jesus is somewhat redundant among this crowd.

Would you care to add the exegesis given about what the Peter meant in this passage?

Nice spin job.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Ron,

I am, along w/ other 1 steppers are, in your corner as to the Apostolic message also commanding baptism in His name as part of a believer's initial conversion ...

This baffles me .... why you find it necessary to reiterate this when there is no confusion to this being foundational?

Listing Scripture in response to my post still does not address how the Scripture in Acts 4 is taken out of context ...

I appreciate your love for truth ... but listing verses about baptism and they being administered under the authority of Jesus is somewhat redundant among this crowd.

Would you care to add the exegesis given about what Peter meant in this passage?

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Lengthy post to tell us what exactly? Look, baptism was and is a sign of joining with Jesus. It is a public display that you have chosen the path of following Jesus, openly identifying with Him and His teachings. By the way Ron repentance is for remission of sins isn't it? If not then why can and does Jesus fill people that are still dirty, cause they haven't been baptized, with His pure spirit? They have obviously repented and they must be sin free at that point cause I do not see that Jesus would fill us with His spirit and us still being sinners and unclean.

Point is Baptism is essential, it isn't just a confirmation with an outward sign.
Look, in the OT when they made the Tabernacle, God said that it was to be exact for it was not only a figure or type of the Church, but it is a figure of the true Tabernacle in the Heavenlies, where Christ ascended & offered his blood for our sins as our great High Priest!
That is why Mary could not touch him at the tomb for he had not done his priestly duties.

As for someone having repented, that is great!

I liken it to the analogy of my son being told to stay away from the mud puddle with his new clothes but does so anyway.
He repents of what he does, & I forgive him for doing so, even hug him and dry his tears---but he ain't getting into bed in my house without getting "cleansed" to wash away the mud.

BTW, Baptism Remits sin, Repentance gets them forgiven.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Ron

Point is Baptism is essential, it isn't just a confirmation with an outward sign.
Look, in the OT when they made the Tabernacle, God said that it was to be exact for it was not only a figure or type of the Church, but it is a figure of the true Tabernacle in the Heavenlies, where Christ ascended & offered his blood for our sins as our great High Priest!
That is why Mary could not touch him at the tomb for he had not done his priestly duties.

As for someone having repented, that is great!

I liken it to the analogy of my son being told to stay away from the mud puddle with his new clothes but does so anyway.
He repents of what he does, & I forgive him for doing so, even hug him and dry his tears---but he ain't getting into bed in my house without getting "cleansed" to wash away the mud.

BTW, Baptism Remits sin, Repentance gets them forgiven.

What do you if you find out those are the same words?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Ron

Point is Baptism is essential, it isn't just a confirmation with an outward sign.
Look, in the OT when they made the Tabernacle, God said that it was to be exact for it was not only a figure or type of the Church, but it is a figure of the true Tabernacle in the Heavenlies, where Christ ascended & offered his blood for our sins as our great High Priest!
That is why Mary could not touch him at the tomb for he had not done his priestly duties.

As for someone having repented, that is great!

I liken it to the analogy of my son being told to stay away from the mud puddle with his new clothes but does so anyway.
He repents of what he does, & I forgive him for doing so, even hug him and dry his tears---but he ain't getting into bed in my house without getting "cleansed" to wash away the mud.

BTW, Baptism Remits sin, Repentance gets them forgiven.

I guess I am missing the point. NO WHERE in scripture is it mandated that baptism is essential, but I believe every believer needs to be baptized.

Interesting analogy, but one thing. Mud is a tangible thing. Being cleansed of sin is not tangible. Check it out in study of the original word in the Bible used for baptism. Nothing about it says it is an acutal spiritual cleanse but it is actually a physical identification unto Christ. The Jews use the Mikvah as thier baptisimal pool so to say. In the Bible those doing the baptizing were Jewish and they knew that baptism is the open indenification that you are now following this teaching. Mikvah washing is done for different reasons. One of the main ones is that when some converts they cleanse in the Mikvah as a sign that they are now a Jew. I think if their is a question in a persons mind that baptism is essential to make heaven then it needs to be completed. Personally I want all of my family to be baptized.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Ron

BTW, Baptism Remits sin, Repentance gets them forgiven.

Both remission and forgiveness are the English translation of the single Greek noun aphesis or verb aphiemi.

Better find another way to explain that one.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Both remission and forgiveness are the English translation of the single Greek noun aphesis or verb aphiemi.

Better find another way to explain that one.

You just took the pitch the Ron through and hit is over the fence. That is whatcha call a HOME RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said Baron.