1Cor 7:1 ¶ Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10 ¶ And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
I fail to see anywhere in the New Testament when dealing with marriage (or if you prefer monogamous cohabitation) anything about a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
In verse 7 Paul says that every man has his proper gift of God. Is homosexuality a proper gift of God?
If Christ died to save us FROM our sins, and if my being born a homosexual is a sin, then why hasn't Christ saved me FROM my sin?
God absolutely does not change but the way in which He interacts with man certainly does change. God's requirements of man have changed in every recorded dispensation. God is a relational God and responds and changes according to His relationship with His creation. Look at Abraham and Isaac. First God required that Isaac be sacrificed but when Abraham showed that he trusted and feared God Isaac was no longer required as the sacrifice. What if Abraham had not feared God? Isaac would have been sacrificed. This shows that God does interact with his creation and may not change in His own character but certainly changes in regards to His relationship with his children.
As far as abominations are concerned, I think I've made it pretty clear in previous posts that nobody in this dispensation of Grace abstains from all of the OT abominations. It has been argued that only certain abominations from the OT Law are required of us today yet nowhere does the NT writings divide the Law into categories; some being eternal and some not. The modern 21st Century church is going to eventually have to confess that it is only following part of the Law and make a decision to embrace all of it or discard all of it.
Brad, One more time...you are assuming-falsely - that you were born a homosexual. You WERE born however with a SINFUL NATURE - a propensity to sin - as were all of us. That nature will not be erradicated until,for the born-again church, we are caught away out of this world. WE MUST CRUCIFY THAT NATURE. You do, I do, we all do. That is the nature of repentance. Jesus does not repent for us. We must repent (turn sorrowfully away from sin) ourselves; knowing that He died to save us from our sins. He will woo us, talk to us, direct us, convict us, give us a measure of faith - but WE must repent.
Your example of Abraham & Isaac is non sequitur and not even understood correctly. In Genesis 22 "God did tempt (test) Abraham regarding Isaac his son. It was a test (tempt here does not mean that God tempted him to do evil - James 1:13). If Abraham did not fear God, Isaac would have been spared - not by God, but by Abraham. Your arguement does not make sense.
Then you mention "OT abominations" and conveniently ignore the New Testament scripture passages that clearly and irrefutably tell us that homosexuality is sinful, wrong and something that ought not to be done.
While you are living here in your resent life, God will not take your carnal, fallen nature away from you. Paul the apostle had to contend with his sinful nature as well (Read Romans 5 through 7); all of us do. What is incumbant upon you is to recognize your sinful tendencies and repent of them - God will help the repentant soul! Someone who is given to the sin of lying, must repent of their lying - even though they have a strong propensity toward the sins to which they more easily fall prey. Same with the gambler, the fornicator, the adulterer and the homosexual. Repent. Ask for God's help, His forgiveness, His mercy.
When Peter preached on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) he let his audience know that they had "with wicked hands" taken and "crucified the Lord of glory." We are all no less guilty than those gathered to hear him. When they heard this they were convicted and cried out to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" That was no idle question - they FINALLY recognized that THEY were guilty of His death by THEIR SIN!
Peter's answer is the answer to every one of us whose sin placed Jesus upon the cross: "REPENT....and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost..." (Acts 2:38) "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying 'save yourselves from this untoward generation.'" (Acts 2:40)
Apply the word and live free from the sin of homosexuality.
1Cor 7:1 ¶ Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
10 ¶ And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
I fail to see anywhere in the New Testament when dealing with marriage (or if you prefer monogamous cohabitation) anything about a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
In verse 7 Paul says that every man has his proper gift of God. Is homosexuality a proper gift of God?
Homosexual and monogamous relationships leading to life-long committed relationships were not in the thoughts and minds of the writers of the Scriptures because marriage was a legal and contractual agreement BETWEEN TWO MEN and with the WOMAN BEING NOTHING MORE THAN PROPERTY. Women had no right to property or even to her children, because she existed only as an adjunct to her husband.
Homosexual covenant relationships are a modern and progressive concept just as mixed marriages are. We do not see an example of mixed marriages in the Bible, except the ones that were denounced, yet most would agree that mixed marriages are not in of themselves unbiblical. So is the case with homosexual covenant relationships.
Just in this last century, marriage was defined as a union between people of the same race. In 1967, for example, sixteen states had anti-miscegenation laws on the books, making marriage between two people of different races a criminal offense. At that time it was considered unnatural for the races to marry, much the same way society views same-sex marriages today.
It has been a pleasure chatting with all of you but I have to take a few days break in order to focus on my finals for this coming week. I will likely drop by again in the near future to consider chatting some more. Take care!
I challenge (in a respectable tone of course) anyone who feels they have the authority to claim my conscience has been seared to come visit me and attend a church service with me at NLCCH. Look into the eyes of the gays and lesbians that attend our church as they lift their hands in worship and respond to the Holy Spirit that dwells in their hearts and then tell me our conscience has been seared.
Anyone who is willing to make such a bold and judgmental statement as you have ought to be ashamed of themselves. You are in no position to tell anyone that their conscience has been seared or to infer that they are going to hell. You stand in judgment against someone you've never met - I would hate to be in your shoes when judgment arrives at your doorstep.
This is subjective. And, not meaning to imply this is true of you it is possible to be deluded
2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, 2Th 2:12 so that all those who do not believe the truth, but delight in unrighteousness, might be condemned.
Though I am not sure Paul meant this phrase to refer to homosexuals specifically
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
1Ti 4:3 forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creation of God is good, and nothing to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified through the Word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6 Having suggested these things to the brothers, you shall be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the Words of Faith and by the good doctrine which you have followed.
Then, once again, if God punishes using such things as blindness does that mean blindness is not fine? Does that make blindness a sin? Following your argument you would have to agree that being blind is sinful simply because God has used as a form of punishment in the past. I would argue that your reasoning is beyond faulty.
2 Thess says God sent a strong dillussion not that they were give over to one. Again, I have to say that just because God gives someone over to something that is bad (homosexuality, blindness, etc.) does not make that specific thing sinful.
I don't see how "giving them over to" is judgement. It sounds more like what Paul is saying is that God gave them up
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
For those reading this blog let me clarify something that HeavenlyOne seems to want to deny. First of all, the statistics are located under the link "How Common Is Intersex?" which clearly implies it is not referring to sex-linked diseases such as hemophilia and muscular dystrophy but is referring to anatomical deviations. Also, the stat reads as follows: Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births. It specifically says "bodies." I admit it is vague but when it is looked at in its entire context it's pretty clear what it is talking about. Not to mention the fact that every statistic before and after it is also dealing specifically with genital abnormalities.
The problem with the statistic, if it's referring to what you claim it is, is that the other things they mention don't line up with the statistic.
They mention several chromasomal anomalies that are like 1 in several thousand, but then group them together and you have 1 in 100???
If something doesn't make sense, that's because it's not true.
Perhaps they made a typo. It's possible, but just like the commercial that claims 7 out of every 10 people with AIDS don't know they have it, I have to ask how they know that info if the people themselves don't know!
The stats aren't correct somewhere.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
It has a lot to do with my situation because it proves that God's original creative plan regarding male and female has been altered genetically; likely as a result of man's fallen state. If there is a standard rule that applies to all and is specifically applied to homosexuals (i.e. "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve) then that rule must be applicable to all of God's creation. It is NOT applicable to hermaphrodites who ARE God's creation.
Also, if outward/anatomical variations can take place, and if chromosomal variations can take place, why is it so hard to accept that orientation variations can exist even if they do not reflect God's original creative plan?
Do you believe heterosexuals are born that way or do you believe heterosexuality is learned? If you believe it is learned then how is it that the vast majority of XX individuals are attracted to XY individuals and how is it that the majority of XY individuals are attracted to XX individuals? This proves that orientation is more than just a learned behavior. There is something genetic that causes one to be orientated to a specific sex.
Being sexually attracted to a male (XY) is only considered homosexual when we can identify the chromosomal sex of the individual with the attraction. If the individual is also XY then we consider the attraction to be homosexual in orientation. Therefore, if there is a genetic influence the causes MOST XY's to be attracted to XX's just as MOST XY's are born with a penis and testicles, it is just as likely that an XY can be genetically influenced to be orientated to an XY just as an XY can be born without a penis and WITH a vagina.
This reminds me of people who, when they are told how to be saved, the bring up the 'what about the guy who is on his way home because the preacher didn't have the baptismal filled up and he's killed before he can get baptized the next day' argument to justify why they don't have to get baptized to be saved.
Unless you possess a physical sexual anomaly, you have nothing in common with them.
You make statements about homosexuality and genetics as fact when there has been no proof to that statement thus far by those who are studying it and trying to find the homo gene.
I prefer to speak about facts, not suppositions, 'what ifs', or wishful thinking.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
This reminds me of people who, when they are told how to be saved, the bring up the 'what about the guy who is on his way home because the preacher didn't have the baptismal filled up and he's killed before he can get baptized the next day' argument to justify why they don't have to get baptized to be saved.
Unless you possess a physical sexual anomaly, you have nothing in common with them.
You make statements about homosexuality and genetics as fact when there has been no proof to that statement thus far by those who are studying it and trying to find the homo gene.
I prefer to speak about facts, not suppositions, 'what ifs', or wishful thinking.
The only thing that is relevant here is what the bible says. Statistics, anecdotes....they are all irrelevant if they do not just add support for what the word says
To respond to MfBlume quote above.
I am from the same side of the fence that you are. I am a Heterosexual looking into the pastures of homosexuality. .
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