Are The Democrats Wanton Baby-Killers?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Bwahahahaha!

Response to my post about Obama and the Democrat Party helping promote abortion rights.

Keep laughing. You won't see PP in the burbs or affluent areas of town. It's always in a seedy building located in a low-income, minority neighborhood, funded by Obama and the Democrat Party, and made legal by legislation passed by Democrats.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Oh the irony of wickedness!

[n david]

And another day goes by without JD making good on his word...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by crakjak

This link, is to the people producing the "Gosnell Movie" this movie should shake up America. An abortion mill is going to be exposed for the horror that it really is:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g...movie#activity

The funded has be privately raised, and the movie is going forward, if this movie get wide recognition in the marketplace, the abortion world is about to be rocked from top to bottom!!!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You're equating abortion of a baby unable to protect itself, to a soldier in war?

Smh

No. I'm simply saying that sometimes difficult life and death decisions are made in all kinds of different contexts.

[Aquila]

I do believe that abortion is a tragedy. A terrible sin. Sometimes, I'd say that it can be considered murder on a moral level.

However, I'm highly reluctant to grant the Government power over a woman's body to the point of Government being able to essentially force a woman to give birth against her will. I'm of the opinion that if Government can force a woman to give birth... Government could then make the case with regards to forcing a woman to abort (see China).

I'm reluctant to trust that the Government wouldn't make a spectacle out of various cases that try to get permission to abort on account of difficult medical circumstances or on cases involving rape or incest.

I'm also reluctant to trust that Government could properly enforce measures involved with banning abortion.

We've really gotten nowhere in the past 30 or more years on this issue. Why don't we actually focus on helping women choose life instead of beating the drum to help a politician of our chosen party garner votes???

Perhaps that's the greatest tragedy. Those who are "pro-life" use the issue to gain votes for their party of choice.

[Luke]

I agree that government does not have the right to force women to engage in actions that result in pregnancy but they do have the right to forbid murder. This is not controlling a woman's body or even turning her into a breeder rather it protects life and keeps her from being a murderer.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

I agree that government does not have the right to force women to engage in actions that result in pregnancy but they do have the right to forbid murder. This is not controlling a woman's body or even turning her into a breeder rather it protects life and keeps her from being a murderer.

Luke... a pregnant woman wishes to have an abortion. She's about midway through her first trimester. Do you believe the government should deny her and essentially force her to carry the child to term by law?

[Aquila]

I look at it like this... due to the unique circumstances of pregnancy... the sovereign right of a person over their own body... a woman has authority over not only her body but the fruit of her womb.

Now, this doesn't mean that I value abortion. I simply believe that at the end of the day someone has to have the authority to make a choice. I'm more comfortable with that choice being in the hands of individual women. I don't believe the GOVERNMENT is capable of truly addressing every circumstance.

Now, I can have much mercy on a woman who chooses abortion for medical reasons or in cases of rape or incest. I do believe that abortion merely as birth control is a terrible thing.

In Judaism, this sovereign right of a woman is often respected. Rabbis often draw a distinction between murder and abortion by siting the following text:

Exodus 21:22-25
King James Version (KJV)
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

The idea is that if men are fighting and harm a pregnant woman and she miscarries... the husband demands payment for the loss. The judges determine what the payment shall be and impose it. However, if the woman continues to bleed and dies, or suffers in any other way from the confrontation, the law of an "eye for an eye" kicks in. A miscarriage that is the result of confrontation is handled much like loss of property. Remember, this was the ancient view regarding women and the fruit of their womb. Women and children were largely protected property in the Mosaic code.

Please note, according to the Mosaic code unborn children that are the result of an adulterous relationship are not protected. In fact there is a ceremony, trial of jealousy, for women who have been suspect of unfaithfulness. The end result is the destruction of their womb... and any contents.

Numbers 5:11-31
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 “Speak to the people of Israel, If any man's wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, 13 if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act, 14 and if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if the spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest and bring the offering required of her, a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 “And the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord. 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord and unbind the hair of the woman's head and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And in his hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, and if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while you were under your husband's authority, be free from this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray, though you are under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself, and some man other than your husband has lain with you, 21 then’ (let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse, and say to the woman) ‘the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. 22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’

23 “Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain. 25 And the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman's hand and shall wave the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 And the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 And when he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has broken faith with her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away, and the woman shall become a curse among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be free and shall conceive children.

29 “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, though under her husband's authority, goes astray and defiles herself, 30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife. Then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall carry out for her all this law. 31 The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree to an extent. But the truth is, people often make love without the intent to have children. I believe most have, if they are honest about it. ...

People eat fatty, unhealthy foods every day, not thinking about the consequences. When they get fat and sick, whether they intended that or not, it was still their choices that got them there.