Holiness, Standards and the bible

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I find it funny that for a forum in which the majority of members do not believe in conservative holiness standards, that is the topic that receives so much attention.

I wonder if first century Jews said the same about Paul and the Gentile churches? They pressured the Gentiles to be circumcised and live by the law. Even after receiving letters from Jerusalem saying the Gentiles didn't have to keep Levitical law, there was still a lot of discussion about the topic because of the pressure to conform to Levitical teachings.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I find it funny that for a forum in which the majority of members do not believe in conservative holiness standards, that is the topic that receives so much attention.

I believe in "conservative holiness standards." In fact, I'm so conservative about this issue that I reject all of the new stuff that you guys made up during the last half of the 20th century.

What "Ancient Paths" is saying TIC, I actually take quite seriously.

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

It's almost as if something is eating at you..

You got me there. It just bugs the daylights out me to think of how I wasted so many years following man-made ordinances as if they were the commandments of God.

I am determined to speak out against these types of abuses and to help all I can to see the richness of life to be found in becoming a follower of Jesus Christ instead of a follower of men.

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Personally if i quit believe in holiness...it would seem easier to just forget about it than to constantly fight it. Now, if I quit living in holiness but knew deep down that it was still what God had called me to...that would probably entail a daily fight to justify my actions and distance myself from what i was always being pulled back to.

You see, that's the whole point. I never "quit believing in holiness." In fact, I'm kind of radical about it. For example, I believe God's Word to be so holy that it is a sin to add to it.

The "daily fight" I wage is to free those who are bound and to proclaim the Good News of the Gospel.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've always thought it was a double standard to declare "The Trinity is not in the bible" yet use the terms A"Holiness Standard", which is not found in the bible.

So, why is uncut hair a Holiness issue? The bible never mentions the word Holiness or Separation with regards to uncut hair on women.

Does the word holiness or separation from the world ever coincide with other "standard" related issues such as jewelry, facial hair, clothing or TV watching?

Holiness in the Bible and the holiness movement in America that has come to be known by standards in some circles are two different things. That doesn't make standards right or wrong, though.

[LUKE2447]

All that I have is separated unto the Lord. Thus it is all holiness unto his order and purpose.

[AncientPaths]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I find it funny that for a forum in which the majority of members do not believe in conservative holiness standards, that is the topic that receives so much attention. It's almost as if something is eating at you..
Personally if i quit believe in holiness...it would seem easier to just forget about it than to constantly fight it. Now, if I quit living in holiness but knew deep down that it was still what God had called me to...that would probably entail a daily fight to justify my actions and distance myself from what i was always being pulled back to.

Nah. It's just that it's an important topic. When you feel like you have a great truth that fails to reach its audience because of some non-essential, man-made, unbiblical traditions that developed in the 1950s - it can be frustrating to watch.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by AncientPaths

Nah. It's just that it's an important topic. When you feel like you have a great truth that fails to reach its audience because of some non-essential, man-made, unbiblical traditions that developed in the 1950s - it can be frustrating to watch.

:

Our whole message either gets lost or hung out to dry on the clothesline because of the silly, silly stuff that entangle us due to our hillbilly* theologies.

*I call it the way I see it. I use the term "hillbilly" to described the unlettered and unlearned "revelations" that swarm through our ranks from time to time. If you are offended by the term, tough. I come from a long line of proud Mountain Folk who taught me to read and ask questions.

[Carpenter]

When you talk about standards you have to ask yourself about the purpose of standards, many are apparent and yet some are less apparent. Here are my observations for anyone who cares...

1. Standards as defined by the Apostolic church were developed as a way to maintain the religious culture. You can control anything by putting eternal consequenses to it. People are afraid of hell and even moreso losing their sense of community.

2. Standards as defined by the church bibically shouldn't apply to kids, yet we drill standards into them as a way of life. What happens is that they become part of their nature, standards defining WHO they are. They fear losing their identity if they were to lose their standards.

3. Many have been fooled into thinking that this is a choice. This is a lie from the pit of hell. The church has set up an untenable circumstance of choosing standards or hell...at least to me it seems like an easy choice. Unfortunatley it is linear too, embracing standards = Pleasing unto the Lord. Unfortunately I believe just the opposite, someone believing they are pleasing God through standards causes him to weep because of the situation at the cross being compromised.

[houston]

"Like"

[houston]

Originally Posted by houston

"Like"

post #26

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've always thought it was a double standard to declare "The Trinity is not in the bible" yet use the terms A"Holiness Standard", which is not found in the bible.

So, why is uncut hair a Holiness issue? The bible never mentions the word Holiness or Separation with regards to uncut hair on women.

Does the word holiness or separation from the world ever coincide with other "standard" related issues such as jewelry, facial hair, clothing or TV watching?

Sadly we focus on all these little "standards" as though they are eternal life. Absolute PERFECTION is the standard. And that is only found in Christ. He is our righteousness and our holiness... freely given to us who obey the Gospel. Not our silly little legalistic standards. We of all people should be the most grace filled people who are resting in justification and yeilding to sanctification. After all... we have the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of Christ Himself) dwelling within us. We are partakers of HIS divine nature. How can a silly standard compare to that reality? Sadly, we don't appropriate all that is ours in Jesus Christ. We'd rather get in the door, push Jesus away, and seek to save ourselves by measuring ourselves with ourselves. Believing that our goal is to avoid sin to be saved, we are always in debate over what is actually sin to justify ourselves and claim salvation as our own. Thus everyone has a different standard by which they are saved. Sin was dealt with by the blood. The old nature was crucified with Christ. A new nature is imparted to us who have obeyed the Gospel. If we are lost... it's because we've neglected the cultivation of that new nature and embraced legalistic standards by which to measure our "progress" on the way to Heaven's door. It's not about us. It's about Jesus in us. We must take heed... lest we fall from grace.

Galatians 5:4-5 (King James Version)
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:3-5 (New Living Translation)
3 I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses. 4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.
5 But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us.

Galatians 5:3-5 (The Message)
2-3I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system, at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning: The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law. 4-6I suspect you would never intend this, but this is what happens. When you attempt to live by your own religious plans and projects, you are cut off from Christ, you fall out of grace. Meanwhile we expectantly wait for a satisfying relationship with the Spirit. For in Christ, neither our most conscientious religion nor disregard of religion amounts to anything. What matters is something far more interior: faith expressed in love.