Isn't that what Joel said would happen when the Holy Spirit was poured out?
Your sons & daughters will prophesy.... visions would be seen etc.
The fact that those in the OT who were said to have the Holy Spirit in them prophesied only speaks more to the possibility that it would be the same spirit.
And, one of the meanings of the word prophesy (naw-baw) is to bubble up. One of the things which happens when the Spirit comes upon people, is that they bubble up with ecstatic utterances.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Well, Genesis 15:6 says that Avram believed God and that God counted or imputed it to him for righteousness. Paul uses that verse in his argument in Romans chapter 4 that he was justified before he was circumcised and before the law was given to Moses.
The theme of justification by faith which Paul quotes 3 times in the New Testament (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38) and that is found in Havakuk which is part of our Old Testament.
Hebrews chapter 11 speaks of many throughout the Old Testament who were people of faith. They did not receive faith because of what they did. They did what they did because they had faith.
because these men/women had faith...does not mean that the OT covenants promised salvation by faith...like in the NT. These covenants were based on obediance...regardless of faith.
Also...these covenants did not promise salvation like in the NT. The Abrhamic and Mosaic covenants were not about salvation.
because these men/women had faith...does not mean that the OT covenants promised salvation by faith...like in the NT. These covenants were based on obediance...regardless of faith.
Also...these covenants did not promise salvation like in the NT. The Abrhamic and Mosaic covenants were not about salvation.
Actually I think that is where the point is missed.
The law was weak because of flesh... possibly stating that the weakness of our flesh was that we couldn't see the intent of the law for the forest of obediences that we keep heaping upon ourselves.
Who caught God's attention? Among others... David... A man who caught on to the fact that God loved praise as a sacrifice. Though, in his lifetime, he was a murderer and an adulterer he was still a man after God's own heart because when it came to righteousness... David "got it"
The laws of God portrayed God's righteousness to us but our flesh keep seeing the laws as the goal rather than the righteousness they portrayed.
30And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
31And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
32And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
33And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
34And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
35Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
Dan Scott preached on this on Sunday. Bezaleel was filled with the spirit and the result was miraculous success in craftsmanship and business!
Christ Church had a revival like this about 15-20 years ago in their youth group. Out of the young men in that youth group, there are many very successful businessmen and millionaires today. Dave Ramsey was part of that group!
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
Very easy...read the OT and look at the times it is mentioned someone is or has the Spirit of God....it was always prophets, priests and kings and Kings like King David prophesied
But how do you know it was a prophetic anointing they had? And were women excluded from having the spirit also, just because we don't see them mentioned?
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
But how do you know it was a prophetic anointing they had? And were women excluded from having the spirit also, just because we don't see them mentioned?
Women were not excluded in the OT but they were not as numerous as the men.
Miariam ministered under an anointing as a leader. In Exodus 15:20 she is called a prophetess and in Micah 6:4 she is listed as a leader along with Moses and Aaron
Deborah was a prophetess and judge (like a spiritual leader or shepherd/pastor) Judges 4:4
When the Book of the Law was found in the Temple and King Josiah wanted to inquire of the Lord they went to Huldah the prophetess in 2 Kings 2:14
Noadiah is spoken of as a prophetess in Nehemiah 6:14 and as part of a group of leaders and prophets who were against Nehemiah.
The wife of the prophet Isaiah is called a prophetess in Isaiah 8:3
Anna was a prophetess dwelling in the Temple and she prophesied over the baby Jesus, Luke 2:36-38
All through Israel's history there have been women in ministry like that but there have been no prophetic books written about their prophecies like the ones we call the major or minor prophets. A couple of books have been written about women like Ruth and Esther (and Judith) but they have not been as prominent as men in the annals of Israel's history.
What Joel prophesied was a time when a prophetic/charismatic anointing would come upon "all" (I take this to mean male and female and Jew and Gentile) flesh. The prophetic anointing would not just be a relative few here and there but this anointing (or promise as spoken of in Acts 2:16-21, 32-33, 38-39) would be for whomever the Lord would call unto Himself.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Last edited by Sam; 04-27-2009 at 06:13 PM.
Reason: correct typo
HO Elizabeth had the holyghost so women were not excluded but I have a filling you already knew this...
Both Elizabeth and her husband had a prophetic anointing but I don't think they were called "prophets." The anointing can be for things other than a vocal ministry (although they both prophesied) as in the case of Bezaleel (Exodus 35:30-35) just as the spiritual gifts listed in Ephesians 4, Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12 are more than being a prophet.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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