UPCI GB Meeting - what would you want to tell them

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

TR usually your not so off in your posts but both of your posts on the thread have been way off. Again there is a large # of these guys who identify themselves as Emerging, and most have been to Bible College.

Oh, and there doctrinal perspectives range anywhere from one-stepper to one must have everything or nothing perspective.

(Am I that way off? ok. I could plead guilty to that )

I did say that that was my impression judging primarily by Chester Wrights letter, where he expressed concern regarding the movement.

(It's also based on what I've observed regarding few other names I've heard mentioned on AFF. I'm not an expert in the movement. I don't deny that. Still, I know some of the names, have been to some of their websites, and have been able to form an early impression of things... incomplete as that might be. )

I'm still not convinced it's as big a "movement" within the org as some seem to think it is. Then again, it seems to be growing, so maybe it will become a bigger issue fairly soon.

[chaotic_resolve]

One message - hold District and Headquarters Leaders accountable for their words and deeds. I believe the majority are good and Godly men and women, regardless, they should be held accountable for their words and actions and not be given carte blanche authority without repercussions for intentional abuse of their positions.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

(Am I that way off? ok. I could plead guilty to that )

I did say that that was my impression judging primarily by Chester Wrights letter, where he expressed concern regarding the movement.

(It's also based on what I've observed regarding few other names I've heard mentioned on AFF. I'm not an expert in the movement. I don't deny that. Still, I know some of the names, have been to some of their websites, and have been able to form an early impression of things... incomplete as that might be. )

I'm still not convinced it's as big a "movement" within the org as some seem to think it is. Then again, it seems to be growing, so maybe it will become a bigger issue fairly soon.

To use an analogy, if your family has 5 kids, the emerging guys represent the 2 or maybe 3 middle kids, if you take them out of the family what will you have left and what impact will that have?

I talking with friends and with an ear to the ground, it is a growing movement. And when it get pulpit time at BOTT with a warning from a seasoned vetern (T. Shock) that the UPC needs to be cautious with the emerging guys, then they need to use wisdom.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

To use an analogy, if your family has 5 kids, the emerging guys represent the 2 or maybe 3 middle kids, if you take them out of the family what will you have left and what impact will that have?

I talking with friends and with an ear to the ground, it is a growing movement. And when it get pulpit time at BOTT with a warning from a seasoned vetern (T. Shock) that the UPC needs to be cautious with the emerging guys, then they need to use wisdom.

As far as an analogy, I would have guessed it would be maybe 1 out of 7 kids... not 2 or 3 out of 5, knowwhatImean?

Well, this thing might be bigger than I thought...

But like I've said about various issues I've seen raised on AFF --- maybe this is a regional thing somewhat. My impression is that this relevant/emerging thing is shaking things up more in some parts of the country than others.

Where I've lived (NYC and Atlanta) there has been little or no talk about such things. Maybe we're just in the dark over here.

Like I said, this thing might be bigger than I thought... but then again, it might be a good thing that I haven't been paying close attention to that stuff. I just want to focus on doing what the Lord wants me to do, and I'll let the other politics, etc work itself out.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

As far as an analogy, I would have guessed it would be maybe 1 out of 7 kids... not 2 or 3 out of 5, knowwhatImean?

Well, this thing might be bigger than I thought...

But like I've said about various issues I've seen raised on AFF --- maybe this is a regional thing somewhat. My impression is that this relevant/emerging thing is shaking things up more in some parts of the country than others.

Where I've lived (NYC and Atlanta) there has been little or no talk about such things. Maybe we're just in the dark over here.

Like I said, this thing might be bigger than I thought... but then again, it might be a good thing that I haven't been paying close attention to that stuff. I just want to focus on doing what the Lord wants me to do, and I'll let the other politics, etc work itself out.

Yes it is bigger at least in influence, maybe not ministers or churches, but in influence. Also I believe these guys are doing the work of God in their respective area.

Also all regions are represented. West Coast, Rust Belt, Northeast, South and Southwest.

[GraceAmazing]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I would ask them to please just get back to preaching the Cross and him crucified. There are tons of young people growing up in UPC churches that don't have a clue about the gospel. Acts 2:38 and standards is about all they seem to know.

AMEN! AMEN! Great Post!

[GraceAmazing]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Yes it is bigger at least in influence, maybe not ministers or churches, but in influence. Also I believe these guys are doing the work of God in their respective area.

Also all regions are represented. West Coast, Rust Belt, Northeast, South and Southwest.

I would agree with this...the influence is definitely bigger! And now, there are places for these guys to go...there are other organizations out there now...there is a network of fellowship and I think these guys are realizing you won't be alone if you leave.

Hopefully, you're right in that the UPC will listen now that someone like T. Shock has talked about it at BOTT...that church and their pastors are great leaders within the UPC...I think they have the influence needed to help change the tide.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Yes it is bigger at least in influence, maybe not ministers or churches, but in influence. Also I believe these guys are doing the work of God in their respective area.

They may be.
I guess one day we'll see what God has to say about it.

But this part of what bro. Wright had to say disturbed me:

"Second, this group wants to reach the world through "relevancy" or "relating" to the culture of this generation. A man who preached this past General Conference uses people in ministry in his church who have NOT been baptized in Jesus name and who have NOT received the Holy Ghost."

I dont know what your thoughts are on that Keith, but that kind of practice is something I generally dont agree with.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Good synopsis, but there are more than that, larger churches even, bigger names. Thanks for mentioning me but there are more bigger fish, that if the UPC doesn't have a Gamaliel’s Advice type of approach they will drive these guys right out of the movement.

Unlike the past departures this will kill the UPC. I promise you that!

There are perhaps some bigger fish ... but I thought adding some names that we are familiar with ... would add a face to what is going on here.

The role that careful study and sound hermeneutics also plays in what is going on cannot be underestimated ....

We are not dealing w/ hippie preachers ...

We're dealing with men of God who have evolved in the Word ...

In speaking to my wife yesterday ... I found it refreshing that men like Dr. Segraves would say things in his bible class like ...10 years ago I would have never said or taught something like this (any given topic) but I've evolved and have weighed this in light of the Word ... etc.

This approach is a stark contrast to the "hold the fort" mentality ... and those theologians in the movement that have become merely apologists for a snapshot in time.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I would ask them to please just get back to preaching the Cross and him crucified. There are tons of young people growing up in UPC churches that don't have a clue about the gospel. Acts 2:38 and standards is about all they seem to know.

Let's face it, Delta...

As long as the UPC remains firmly a "3-stepper" denomination, you're going to think they're not preaching the Word right.

So that's about the size of it right there.