Revisiting the "PANTS" Issue

[bkstokes]

I just saw a message from Jack Hayford about spiritual language. It was quite good. He really brought out a lot. It made me want to pray even more in the spirit.

I know it was off subject, but I felt edified.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by StMark

I recently spoke to a young pastor (upc) at length about the future of the upc. This is a pastor i would consider fairly conservative. HIs father was and the church still looks old time for the most part.

in the conversation,the standard issue came up and to make a long story short, he told me that within 5-10 years, that pants rule would no longer be an issue. It would only be the old timers holding on to this teaching. Furthermore, he went on to say that he also believed that we are slowly going to have to let go of this rule. I almost swallowed my teeth!!!

He went on to say that most of the younger preachers are waiting for the old gaurd to move from power do they can change these things.



My Question is this, will this change the spirit of the church? I look at the AoG. most of the ones I know (with a few exceptions) have no semblence to Pentecost. I'm not talking about wild services, but they are just plain DEAD. even some of their members complain that something is missing.
however, I do concede that some of our churches are pretty dead yet have long dresses but for the most part, we are pretty lively compared to most, even the deadest ones amongst us.

Do you agree that this enevitable in the UPC??? ( changing the dress code) or not? and will it change the consecration of the church ?

.

I attend a non-upc church where the woman can wear pants and not look like the ladies getting off the FLS bus at a compound.

Not sure what your idea of Pentecost but I grew up UPCI and in the church I am in today had a much better atmosphere.

Many times folks judge other churches without having been in them.

I know from where I spend 40 years and where I am today.

I can't speak for other churches.

[Pragmatist]

If people let up on their consecration to God when they ease up on dress standards, it could be a church's downfall. If people increase their consecration while ceasing to focus so much on outward appearance, we could have revival!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by StMark

I recently spoke to a young pastor (upc) at length about the future of the upc. This is a pastor i would consider fairly conservative. HIs father was and the church still looks old time for the most part.

in the conversation,the standard issue came up and to make a long story short, he told me that within 5-10 years, that pants rule would no longer be an issue. It would only be the old timers holding on to this teaching. Furthermore, he went on to say that he also believed that we are slowly going to have to let go of this rule. I almost swallowed my teeth!!!

He went on to say that most of the younger preachers are waiting for the old gaurd to move from power do they can change these things.



My Question is this, will this change the spirit of the church? I look at the AoG. most of the ones I know (with a few exceptions) have no semblence to Pentecost. I'm not talking about wild services, but they are just plain DEAD. even some of their members complain that something is missing.
however, I do concede that some of our churches are pretty dead yet have long dresses but for the most part, we are pretty lively compared to most, even the deadest ones amongst us.

Do you agree that this enevitable in the UPC??? ( changing the dress code) or not? and will it change the consecration of the church ?

.

St. Mark,

I find your account fascinating. I have a fairly young (30ish) UPC evangelist acquaintance who started telling me about three years ago exactly what this guy told you.

The guy I was talking to said that as an evangelist he is in many pastors homes and that many of them, once they felt they could trust him, would confide that they no longer felt the same way about many of the dress code standards as they had been raised but that they did not know what to do.

They did not want to tear apart their churches or destroy peoples belief systems and they also feared a loss of fellowship from fellow ministers they esteemed.

At the time I had a very hard time believing there could be more than a handful who felt this way but perhaps there are more than I thought.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Neck

I attend a non-upc church where the woman can wear pants and not look like the ladies getting off the FLS bus at a compound.

Not sure what your idea of Pentecost but I grew up UPCI and in the church I am in today had a much better atmosphere.

Many times folks judge other churches without having been in them.

I know from where I spend 40 years and where I am today.

I can't speak for other churches.

The way you worded that didn't come across very kind or christian like

[Sept5SavedTeen]

There are a few women who are apart of the church in the local assembly I attend that wear pants... I don't agree with it, but it's not for me to say, they're not under my authority, and it's not for my pastor to say, they're not under his authority. He has the authority to preach the word, and if and when he teaches on Deut. 22:5 (for example), the pant wearing women interpret it as, "Well, I won't wear a man's garment like men's jeans, I'll buy women's jeans." there's really nothing else we can do. Unless a women asks another sister, or a brother (although that would be strange and innappropriate) why most women in our assembly choose not to wear pants, then someone may share the application in their life of the command to dress in a gender-appropriate way. You know, though, it's great to not have to worry about what a woman covers her legs with! The UPC should do the same, rather than be a skirt-preaching group, or a "pants are ok"-preaching group, just let the assembly's pastor preach holiness as is appropriate in the culture and locale he finds himself in, give him elders to be accountable to, make sure the leadership and their wives and children display a good example, and things will be fine. In my assembly it's a 90/10 break for skirts to pants for women, and the 10 are just not convinced or convicted, and that's fine. It's far better than having things be secretive in the UPC church and then see a sister at Walmart in a pair of pants- and she sings on the platform no less!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

If people let up on their consecration to God when they ease up on dress standards, it could be a church's downfall. If people increase their consecration while ceasing to focus so much on outward appearance, we could have revival!

I think this is quite good.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by CC1

St. Mark,

I find your account fascinating. I have a fairly young (30ish) UPC evangelist acquaintance who started telling me about three years ago exactly what this guy told you.

The guy I was talking to said that as an evangelist he is in many pastors homes and that many of them, once they felt they could trust him, would confide that they no longer felt the same way about many of the dress code standards as they had been raised but that they did not know what to do.

They did not want to tear apart their churches or destroy peoples belief systems and they also feared a loss of fellowship from fellow ministers they esteemed.

At the time I had a very hard time believing there could be more than a handful who felt this way but perhaps there are more than I thought.

There are MANY who see it like this! I've talked to more than just this one pastor and the ones I have talked to run with others who see it this way.

I have seen Pastors get up in the pulpit and try to change things in one sweep only to split churches, tear families apart, there was one pastor in our area who was even receiving death threats!!!!!!

I think I would have more respect if the pastor just started over someplace else. afterall, it's the peoples' church , they built it and put their hard earned money into it.
Or, If you're going to change things, at least do it very slowly. we're an old church and our bones don't move as fast lol

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

There are a few women who are apart of the church in the local assembly I attend that wear pants... I don't agree with it, but it's not for me to say, they're not under my authority, and it's not for my pastor to say, they're not under his authority. He has the authority to preach the word, and if and when he teaches on Deut. 22:5 (for example), the pant wearing women interpret it as, "Well, I won't wear a man's garment like men's jeans, I'll buy women's jeans." there's really nothing else we can do. Unless a women asks another sister, or a brother (although that would be strange and innappropriate) why most women in our assembly choose not to wear pants, then someone may share the application in their life of the command to dress in a gender-appropriate way. You know, though, it's great to not have to worry about what a woman covers her legs with! The UPC should do the same, rather than be a skirt-preaching group, or a "pants are ok"-preaching group, just let the assembly's pastor preach holiness as is appropriate in the culture and locale he finds himself in, give him elders to be accountable to, make sure the leadership and their wives and children display a good example, and things will be fine. In my assembly it's a 90/10 break for skirts to pants for women, and the 10 are just not convinced or convicted, and that's fine. It's far better than having things be secretive in the UPC church and then see a sister at Walmart in a pair of pants- and she sings on the platform no less!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

I like this guys innocence.

[AmazingGrace]

Yes Indeedy!!! St Mark is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome home! This is what we missed!