WPF's Youth Congress?

[SOUNWORTHY]

Sometimes independent is down hill. I feel it is good to have some support, it can get very cold on the outside.Just my humble opinion!!

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

Sometimes independent is down hill. I feel it is good to have some support, it can get very cold on the outside.Just my humble opinion!!

I wonder how many "independents" are referenced in the New Testament? I is my understanding that there was only one church body. Those that left it, according to John, were never really of it. Could those have been independents?

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

I wonder how many "independents" are referenced in the New Testament? I is my understanding that there was only one church body. Those that left it, according to John, were never really of it. Could those have been independents?

"Independent" isn't a term I like, but unfortunately, those who reject the denominational system have to call themselves that to distinguish themselves, or that is what they are called by those in denominations. The "independent" term is generally meant as assemblies that are autonomous from denominational bodies (which the Bible does not authorize).

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

"Independent" isn't a term I like, but unfortunately, those who reject the denominational system have to call themselves that to distinguish themselves, or that is what they are called by those in denominations. The "independent" term is generally meant as assemblies that are autonomous from denominational bodies (which the Bible does not authorize).

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

What kind of bodies does it authorize? Although strict denominationalism may not be supported by scripture, there seems to be ample references to councils and elders to whom even the likes of Peter and Paul answered. Sometimes I wonder if many of our ministers forget that they are servants of the body, not lords over God's heritage. We all must be accountable to someone. And not just to a group of men who may change at our whim when they no longer validate our dicisions or ways of doing things.

There are, without a doubt, many "independents" who are fine men, and are doing all they can to build a church for his name's sake. However, could they be too willing sever themselves from the rest of the body, sacrificing a higher degree of overall effectiveness and impact, because of an inability to find common ground with brethren who preach the same salvation doctrine?

An arm, regardless of how strong, coordinated, or agile looses its effectiveness when severed from the body. None of us are meant to operate alone. I must remind myself that Christ did not just die for indevidual sinners, but he went to the cross for the church. He died to recieve a bride, not brides.

Jesus' prayer was that we be one. I often fear that in our rush to see our own prayers answered, we leave his unanswered. By rushing to build our own kingdoms, could we be guilty of dismembering his.

I don't have all the answers, and I do believe strongly that we should live a separated lifestyle, but I do not believe that means separate from each other. Rather we are to be distinct from the world and it's systems. We live for God, but love the brethren.

God bless you.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

What kind of bodies does it authorize? Although strict denominationalism may not be supported by scripture, there seems to be ample references to councils and elders to whom even the likes of Peter and Paul answered. Sometimes I wonder if many of our ministers forget that they are servants of the body, not lords over God's heritage. We all must be accountable to someone. And not just to a group of men who may change at our whim when they no longer validate our dicisions or ways of doing things.

There are, without a doubt, many "independents" who are fine men, and are doing all they can to build a church for his name's sake. However, could they be too willing sever themselves from the rest of the body, sacrificing a higher degree of overall effectiveness and impact, because of an inability to find common ground with brethren who preach the same salvation doctrine?

An arm, regardless of how strong, coordinated, or agile looses its effectiveness when severed from the body. None of us are meant to operate alone. I must remind myself that Christ did not just die for indevidual sinners, but he went to the cross for the church. He died to recieve a bride, not brides.

Jesus' prayer was that we be one. I often fear that in our rush to see our own prayers answered, we leave his unanswered. By rushing to build our own kingdoms, could we be guilty of dismembering his.

I don't have all the answers, and I do believe strongly that we should live a separated lifestyle, but I do not believe that means separate from each other. Rather we are to be distinct from the world and it's systems. We live for God, but love the brethren.

God bless you.

Thanks for the post, I agree and see your train of thought in it. Unfortunately, many independents have given other independents a bad name. My assembly is not independent so that my pastor can hold all the power in the assembly- however, I'm not saying there aren't independent assemblies out there that are like that. My assembly believes strongly in having a plurality of elders, and we've even considered a plural pastorship. The problem we have is not a pastor who doesn't want to appoint men, but we have men who don't want to be appointed- for whatever reason I don't know. There is one man who has stepped up to the plate and been appointed as a deacon, we hope more will follow his example. This system helps provide accountability for the pastor. Also, my pastor works with others, and all apostolic pastors should as they did in the NT. For example, if someone is disfellowshipped from our assembly (it has only happened ONCE to my knowledge), two other pastors (one indep and one UPC) in our area will also not allow that person to worship in their assembly. My pastor does the same thing, however, I don't know how many disfellowshiped people there have been from the other two assemblies. In this way the Body of Christ is protected from wolves in sheep's clothing and if someone has a contention with the saints in one assembly, they can not just go to another assembly and everything be fine, they must mend their problem and the Body must heal before they can go somewhere else, or perhaps cause trouble again. So, I definately believe a local, indep, autonomous congregation can be run well or be run poorly. I believe if it is run correctly it is most Biblical. I also believe a UPC, WPF or AMF or whatever other denominational assembly can be run well, however, as good as it may run, it oversteps it's authority Scripturally by being bound to a denominational body.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex