A Word About Drinking, Drunks, and Those Who Rejoice in Their Sin

[COOPER]

Many people are evil, mean, wicked, abusive and wreckless drivers with out ever having a drink.

Do not put it all on drinking.

Some folks drink and have been drunk and have never ever caused any one harm to anyone or driven a car.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well let's see ... RW .... who is the backslider and who are the so-called Christians and supposed preachers?

Ya know what? For a minute or two, I was flamen mad when this all started -a few hours ago now, but I was quickly checked. Like I also said, this is a sensitive subject, and I don't want to go mid-evil on anyone who experienced the death of a loved one from a drunk driver. Although there may be anger issues (as I see there are), I'm not going to add to them.

It would be no different then taking part in a thread on guns where I talked about target practicing and having someone go all nutz about it. (Because they had an unfortunate accident in the home involving a loaded weapon that was found by a youngster.)
I may "be right" but would be wrong for arguing.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Here's all I know:

1. The Bible clearly defines drunkenness as a sin.

2. It does not clearly define drinking (in moderation, presumably withOUT becoming drunk) as a sin.

3. It DOES, however, strongly discourage Kings, Princes and Bishops from drinking at all. (Scripture references available for those who care.)

4. Culturally, it isn't wise, considering the overindulgence that IS a problem, especially among college age young people.

5. From a Christian perspective, should we associate ourselves with a habit that can break down families, cause a lack of good judgment, and turn perfectly nice people into monsters? To name a FEW....


6. What is the benefit of drinking, other than pleasure? Can anyone present a list of pros that is anywhere near the list of cons in size? (Don't bother with the "health" benefits. You can receive the same benefits from other sources.)

Why would you want to use something even occasionally that your children could become addicted to, and subsequently ruin their lives with?

My Daddy was a mean drunk, so I've been told through my mother and siblings who had to suffer through it. The fact that he later became a Christian did NOT undo their emotional pain. I know another member of this forum whose sister was killed by a drunk driver. I'm sure there are more than a few members who have struggled with alcoholism in the past, and as Christians we are NOT supposed to be stumbling blocks. Some users here probably had parents who abused them when they were drunk.

Biblical points aside, the insensitivity on this issue is shocking. Our western culture is not a culture of restraint, which places alcohol use in a whole different category than it was in Bible days.

BY the way...

I Corinthians 6:10 "...Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Anyone want to guess what "drunkard" means?

Are you ready?

methusos
meth'-oo-sos
From G3184; tipsy, that is, (as noun) a sot: - drunkard.

This one , Miss Brat. The one that defines tipsy ... as that is, [as noun] - drunkard .... NOT AN ADJECTIVE .... BUT AS A DRUNKARD.

AND YES AGREE BEING A DRUNKARD IS SIN !!!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The one that mistakenly claimed Western culture doesn't know how to handle it's liquor .... I thought Europeans, note wine drinkers, were part of WESTERN CULTURE?

That is a misquote. What I said was:

"Biblical points aside, the insensitivity on this issue is shocking. Our western culture is not a culture of restraint, which places alcohol use in a whole different category than it was in Bible days."

You don't agree that western culture is one of indulgence, generally speaking?

Were there any other parts of my post which you felt weren't biblically supported, or supported by other evidence?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This one , Miss Brat. The one that defines tipsy ... as that is, [as noun] - drunkard .... NOT AN ADJECTIVE .... BUT AS A DRUNKARD.

AND YES AGREE BEING A DRUNKARD IS SIN !!!

I don't understand your point. I didn't make up the definition; I took it directly from Strong's. What is your objection exactly? I just thought it was interesting that "tipsy" was included in the definition.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

That is a misquote. What I said was:

"Biblical points aside, the insensitivity on this issue is shocking. Our western culture is not a culture of restraint, which places alcohol use in a whole different category than it was in Bible days."

You don't agree that western culture is one of indulgence, generally speaking?

Were there any other parts of my post which you felt weren't biblically supported, or supported by other evidence?

See bible ... for Israelites engaging in overindulgence ... the days of Noah ... etc .... it's been a humanity issue, sis.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya know what? For a minute or two, I was flamen mad when this all started -a few hours ago now, but I was quickly checked. Like I also said, this is a sensitive subject, and I don't want to go mid-evil on anyone who experienced the death of a loved one from a drunk driver. Although there may be anger issues (as I see there are), I'm not going to add to them.

It would be no different then taking part in a thread on guns where I talked about target practicing and having someone go all nutz about it. (Because they had an unfortunate accident in the home involving a loaded weapon that was found by a youngster.)
I may "be right" but would be wrong for arguing.

I almost posted the same point.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't understand your point. I didn't make up the definition; I took it directly from Strong's. What is your objection exactly? I just thought it was interesting that "tipsy" was included in the definition.

Clearly you sought to make us believe ... with your intro ....

Anyone want to guess what "drunkard" means?

Are you ready?

That somehow tipsy denotes our modern definition. Strong was clear when we read his ENTIRE DEFINITION.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya know what? For a minute or two, I was flamen mad when this all started -a few hours ago now, but I was quickly checked. Like I also said, this is a sensitive subject, and I don't want to go mid-evil on anyone who experienced the death of a loved one from a drunk driver. Although there may be anger issues (as I see there are), I'm not going to add to them.

It would be no different then taking part in a thread on guns where I talked about target practicing and having someone go all nutz about it. (Because they had an unfortunate accident in the home involving a loaded weapon that was found by a youngster.)
I may "be right" but would be wrong for arguing.

It's obvious that hurts rooted in alcoholism and the abuse of alcohol is what is clouding this discussion ... but as always the moral high ground has led to more bloodshed.


The heart of the issue.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

See bible ... for Israelites engaging in overindulgence ... the days of Noah ... etc .... it's been a humanity issue, sis.

Sure. But there are times when it is worse than others, and our culture seems to be one of indulgence, more so than in eras past, and more than other parts of the world. The laxness and immorality of societies seems to ebb and flow by times, and this seems to be one of those "flow" times.

Anyway...I'll take your explanation and raise you...if its a humanity issue, then don't we have to address it a bit more firmly? Instead of making allowances for our humanity? If humanity in general has a problem being self-disciplined enough to practice moderation, then aren't we treading on dangerous ground when we ask for moderation?

You seem to be contradicting yourself, stating on one hand overindulgence is a humanity issue, and then on the flip side implying that Europeans, "wine drinkers", are not indulgent? If it is indeed a humanity issue, then all cultures deal with it.