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07-04-2014, 01:24 PM
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Location: St. Louis Area
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningOnFaith
BTW, some may be interested in watching these lectures by Dr. Fudge. Whatever ones doctrinal position, all of these lectures are informative and interesting. He is a very engaging lecturer. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgTDplQabRk
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I watched 3 or 4 of these videos. Not bad. Just not earth shattering.
Oh well there better than TV.
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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07-04-2014, 01:32 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningOnFaith
I also found the situation at Jackson to be interesting. I have recently contacted Joseph Howell and he has agreed to send me the booklist and his FSU dissertation “People of the Name”. It should be interesting.
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RunningOnFaith,
I was wondering, did you receive it yet? Did you read it? How was it and what did you think?
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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07-15-2014, 08:07 AM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Bump
Are we done with this thread? 
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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07-30-2014, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: St. Louis Area
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
A new book just came out!
Anthology
The Life & Times of Thomas L. Craft
by Penny Watkins
I have it ordered through PPH. Here is a link. http://pentecostalpublishing.com/product/anthology-0
Thoughts?
I thought it would interest some here since Thomas Craft name came up in this thread.
We can talk about Fisher but not Craft?
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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07-30-2014, 03:55 PM
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple4life
A new book just came out!
Anthology
The Life & Times of Thomas L. Craft
by Penny Watkins
I have it ordered through PPH. Here is a link. http://pentecostalpublishing.com/product/anthology-0
Thoughts?
I thought it would interest some here since Thomas Craft name came up in this thread.
We can talk about Fisher but not Craft? |
What is there to talk about TLC? He is clearly and firmly a 3 stepper. He is a very personable person. When Don Fisher came to JCM they were known as "Velvet & Steel" with TLC being the Velvet.
I am sure this book is an interesting look at TLC's ministry when has had much success and some bumps in the road but I am willing to bet it will not tackle controversial or difficult subjects.
If you want some inside perspective on TLC during the JCM days read the pdf you can find online for free of the Dan Lewis publication "Why I left the United Pentecostal Church". He mentions in detail several instances of how TLC handled the possibility that some JCM staff members were not doctrinally aligned with him and the vast majority of the UPC.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-30-2014, 07:36 PM
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Registered Saint
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: St. Louis Area
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
What is there to talk about TLC? He is clearly and firmly a 3 stepper. He is a very personable person. When Don Fisher came to JCM they were known as "Velvet & Steel" with TLC being the Velvet.
I am sure this book is an interesting look at TLC's ministry when has had much success and some bumps in the road but I am willing to bet it will not tackle controversial or difficult subjects.
If you want some inside perspective on TLC during the JCM days read the pdf you can find online for free of the Dan Lewis publication "Why I left the United Pentecostal Church". He mentions in detail several instances of how TLC handled the possibility that some JCM staff members were not doctrinally aligned with him and the vast majority of the UPC.
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Not looking for more controversy. I just believe there are two sides to every story.
If a person only read Fudges book they might not get the full picture of who Craft was.
I am not looking for an angel or a devil. I want to read more to get a balanced view.
I am not one of those people that read only books that I already agree with everything they say.
Wow that would be a huge waste of time. 
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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07-30-2014, 08:43 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
I just don't think you are going to find anything enlightening in this new book about TLC. It is written as a love letter to a beloved pastor and I will be shocked if there is anything revealing in it. Having said that, like you I want to read it.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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08-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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Registered Saint
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: St. Louis Area
Posts: 1,615
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I just don't think you are going to find anything enlightening in this new book about TLC. It is written as a love letter to a beloved pastor and I will be shocked if there is anything revealing in it. Having said that, like you I want to read it.
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I read the book about Tommy Craft. What a great story! He seemed like a terrific pastor and preacher. I think everyone agrees that Tommy Loved people and the saints of his congregation.
So many times we talk about one steppers and three steppers and we forget that our theology doesn't define us as a person.
A three stepper can have a huge heart and a one stepper can be a mean old crab. Or vice versa.
I want to fellowship with all Apostolics and not pre-judge somebody on their theology.
__________________
In the Old Days, if you wanted to argue about religion you had to go to Church.
Nowadays you get on the internet!
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08-08-2014, 05:30 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 99
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple4life
I watched 3 or 4 of these videos. Not bad. Just not earth shattering.
Oh well there better than TV.
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I believe they were produced by a homeschooling curriculum company. I have listened to a similar course put out by "The Great Courses"-- and even though I have only listened to about 20 so far, I prefer Fudge's course over that of Luke Timothy Johnson. Fudge incorporates far more of the original sources within his course, which I really like. Fudge is good when he is dealing with the late middle ages and reformation-- the lectures on the medieval conception of hell, the mystics, and the crusades were particularly fascinating.
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08-08-2014, 08:06 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple4life
I read the book about Tommy Craft. What a great story! He seemed like a terrific pastor and preacher. I think everyone agrees that Tommy Loved people and the saints of his congregation.
So many times we talk about one steppers and three steppers and we forget that our theology doesn't define us as a person.
A three stepper can have a huge heart and a one stepper can be a mean old crab. Or vice versa.
I want to fellowship with all Apostolics and not pre-judge somebody on their theology.
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One of the great things about TLC is that while he holds strongly to his fairly conservative views he does not base relationships / friendships on others agreeing with him.
It would have been easy for him to essentially excommunicate (have nothing to do with) those JCM students who have "gone charismatic" as they say. However he chose not to do that.
He has openly talked about criticism he has gotten for attending JCM reunions in 2005 and 2010 that had a lot of these folks. He said we are all family and you don't go to a family reunion because there is an uncle or aunt there you disagree with about some things.
I highly respect him for this.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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