Nehemiah & Malachi

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I quoted this because it is important in that Tobiah was an Amomonite. (See Neh 4:3 Now Tobiah the Ammonite [was] by him, and he said, Even that which they build, if a fox go up, he shall even break down their stone wall.




Then we see later on in the same chapter that the portion of the Levites had not been distributed to them. Since the Levites were the ones who were supposed to be doing the distributing it is clear that the tithe was no longer going through the proper channels that God had commanded.



Let me know if that doesn't answer your questions.

Very Interesting. It does cause me to rethink things.
Worth pondering on.
Thanks for posting.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

LOL... aint that the truth... and I am SO thankful it isn't a sin to be ignorant. I wouldn't have a chance.

Well a man full of pride "thinks" he knows everything. One who has grown a bit realizes that he "doesn't" know everything, and can be benefited by learning from others!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Ron

Very Interesting. It does cause me to rethink things.
Worth pondering on.
Thanks for posting.

No problem.,...

Thanks for reading with an open mind.

If you have any further thoughts on the subject I would be glad to hear them. I am always open to learn, re-learn, unlearn... whatever it takes to be true to the word.

[Digging4Truth]

I would like to hear what the take of some of the preachers & pastors on the forum is.

Would any of you care to comment on the scriptures being presented?

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I would like to take some time to put together a better representation of my question but I really don't have the time.

So, for now, I am going to quote a post I made on another forum.

The issue I was dealing with was someones comment that the writings of Nehemiah concerning Tobiah were about "laymen" running the church.

The issue I am really presenting here is how the knowledge that Nehemiah and Malachi were contemporaries affects the message that was being put forth in Malachi 3:8 etc.

Here is a portion of the post.

The issue wasn't that Tobiah was a "layman" (Wherever that term comes from)

The issue was that Tobiah was an Ammonite and when the word was read in the midst of the congregation the congregation heard from the word "that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever"

Not only were ammonites & moabites in the congregation but Tobiah (an Ammonite) was living in the storehouse that was supposed to hold the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil.

The priests were not supposed to be receiving the tithe. The Levites were. The Levites were supposed to be giving the priests their portion but the priests had taken over the distribution of the tithe and there had been a total departure from God's law concerning the handling of the tithe. (Now that would preach all day all by itself.)

There was another OT writer that lived in the time of Nehemiah. You know him as Malachi.

In Malachi 2:1 he begins a scathing chastisement of the priests which continues through the end of the book and also includes Malachi 3:8.

Malachi 3:8 was written about the actions of the priests during the time of Malachi.



He says here that they have gone away from God's ordinances and Nehemiah certainly did confirm that during this same space in time there was a great departure from God's law of the tithe by the priesthood.

He went on to say that they had robbed God... even the whole nation.



Remember what was in the storehouse in Nehemiah? An Ammonite and there were no meat offerings, no corn, no oil. Malachi is challenging them to bring the tithe into the storehouse. I have no idea where the tithe had been kept but during the time that Tobiah's occupation of the storehouse (The time of Nehemiah and Malachi) the tithes were not kept there.

Ezra was another contemporary and in his book it talks about all those - from the princes and priests on down - that had taken foreign wives (contrary to the Law of Moses).

Nehemiah's comments on Tobiah are not about a church that had begun to be ruled by the "laymen". It is, instead, about a priesthood who had ceased to obey the laws of God and had blatantly disobeyed commands given them by God.

Beware those who would try to spiritualize literal events and try to make them apply to the Church!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Chan

Ezra was another contemporary and in his book it talks about all those - from the princes and priests on down - that had taken foreign wives (contrary to the Law of Moses).


Beware those who would try to spiritualize literal events and try to make them apply to the Church!

I have been awaiting your comments on this thread.

It is a hard thing to pass your muster sometimes and I was anxious to see what your thoughts were.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I was aware that Ezra was a contemporary of Nehemiah & Malachi but, while doing the study, I didn't look into anything Ezra may have had to say along these lines.

I will look into it and increase my knowledge of this area.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I have been awaiting your comments on this thread.

It is a hard thing to pass your muster sometimes and I was anxious to see what your thoughts were.

What was that well-worn expression from the 1980s? Not!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I was aware that Ezra was a contemporary of Nehemiah & Malachi but, while doing the study, I didn't look into anything Ezra may have had to say along these lines.

I will look into it and increase my knowledge of this area.

Thanks again.

Well, I don't know of too many people who would have thought to bring together Nehemiah and Malachi and what you posted is the first thing I've ever seen bringing the two together. It's interesting to see just how far the Jews had gone in letting themselves be corrupted by the Gentiles around them. Goodness! There was a Gentile (someone who was outside of God's covenant) living in the storehouse of the temple (the temple being the place where God had chosen to put His name). Why those who decided the order in which to put the OT books in English translations of the Bible didn't put Malachi with Ezra and Nehemiah, I don't know.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Chan

What was that well-worn expression from the 1980s? Not!

Well, I don't know of too many people who would have thought to bring together Nehemiah and Malachi and what you posted is the first thing I've ever seen bringing the two together. It's interesting to see just how far the Jews had gone in letting themselves be corrupted by the Gentiles around them. Goodness! There was a Gentile (someone who was outside of God's covenant) living in the storehouse of the temple (the temple being the place where God had chosen to put His name). Why those who decided the order in which to put the OT books in English translations of the Bible didn't put Malachi with Ezra and Nehemiah, I don't know.

Yes sir... it was discussion with those who disagreed with me that finally helped me put all of this together. (That's how it goes... I learn very little when everyone agrees... I learn so much more when discussing in a civil manner with someone who disagrees... as I sometimes say... Iron sharpens iron... but only when moving in opposite directions)

Have you ever used http://www.blueletterbible.org ?

It is a great resource. When doing this study I used the timeline a lot.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/parallel/timeline/

They have lots of different study tools here.... http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I would like to take some time to put together a better representation of my question but I really don't have the time.

So, for now, I am going to quote a post I made on another forum.

The issue I was dealing with was someones comment that the writings of Nehemiah concerning Tobiah were about "laymen" running the church.

The issue I am really presenting here is how the knowledge that Nehemiah and Malachi were contemporaries affects the message that was being put forth in Malachi 3:8 etc.

Here is a portion of the post.

The issue wasn't that Tobiah was a "layman" (Wherever that term comes from)

The issue was that Tobiah was an Ammonite and when the word was read in the midst of the congregation the congregation heard from the word "that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever"

Not only were ammonites & moabites in the congregation but Tobiah (an Ammonite) was living in the storehouse that was supposed to hold the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil.

The priests were not supposed to be receiving the tithe. The Levites were. The Levites were supposed to be giving the priests their portion but the priests had taken over the distribution of the tithe and there had been a total departure from God's law concerning the handling of the tithe. (Now that would preach all day all by itself.)

There was another OT writer that lived in the time of Nehemiah. You know him as Malachi.

In Malachi 2:1 he begins a scathing chastisement of the priests which continues through the end of the book and also includes Malachi 3:8.

Malachi 3:8 was written about the actions of the priests during the time of Malachi.



He says here that they have gone away from God's ordinances and Nehemiah certainly did confirm that during this same space in time there was a great departure from God's law of the tithe by the priesthood.

He went on to say that they had robbed God... even the whole nation.



Remember what was in the storehouse in Nehemiah? An Ammonite and there were no meat offerings, no corn, no oil. Malachi is challenging them to bring the tithe into the storehouse. I have no idea where the tithe had been kept but during the time that Tobiah's occupation of the storehouse (The time of Nehemiah and Malachi) the tithes were not kept there.

Nehemiah's comments on Tobiah are not about a church that had begun to be ruled by the "laymen". It is, instead, about a priesthood who had ceased to obey the laws of God and had blatantly disobeyed commands given them by God.

How often it is that we simply accept the interpretation of men and tradition without in serious study, that would clearly reveal the lack of support for the traditions of men. This post clearly shows the misuse of these scriptures to support the current tradition.

[Pressing-On]

Excellent thread, Digging.

On a side note, I've always viewed Malachi as a "changing of the guard" type of thing. I believe the Lord was warning them and then telling them why he was doing away with the Old Covenant.

Malachi 4:5-6, pretty much, seals the deal, IMO. This is what I am going to do next, preview.

I've never viewed Mal 3:8 as anything other than the final warning. I certainly wouldn't carry that into the NT church and use it for a threat.