Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Good post. Those who do not give Tithes And Offering are not dis-obedient

nor have robbed God.

Right.

We need to give. But not because of a commandment that curses if we do not. God leads us to give. Sometimes it may be less than 10% other times 10% or other times more!

But like Paul said in Gal 5, although we are not under law, let's not use that as though we can have a cloak for our flesh to not give anything. The church still requires givers.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

Is Jesus the same God from the OT?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rico

Is Jesus the same God from the OT?

Yeah, but the law has changed. We are no longer under Old Testament Law. But that does not mean we are under now law. There is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. And we must be led by the Spirit.

[mfblume]

Tithes can be a pattern to use. the UPC, for example, asked its ministers if they agree to the tithing plan. So tithes can be used as a pattern. But the law of cursing involved is not with it today.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yeah, but the law has changed. We are no longer under Old Testament Law. But that does not mean we are under now law. There is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. And we must be led by the Spirit.

Slow your roll there, big boy! I am going somewhere with this.

[OP_Carl]

That would be a pretty self-defeating doctrine to teach for most traditional preachers.

And it begs the question: What, exactly, does a preacher want from you if he teaches against tithing?

Such a preacher is proselytizing the weak and the carnal-minded from other flocks, but to what end, and to what result?

I've proven God time and time again that tithing opens up the windows of heaven of blessing upon me. I've heard countless fellow Christians testify of the same. By the same token, when I have struggled in the past, and shorted God of my tithes, I've had multiple appliances and vehicles all break down in the same month. God will more fully bless the believer who keeps an open hand.

Not tithing won't condemn a person. Tithing won't save a person. But a person's reaction to the concept of tithing is an accurate measurement of their faith and commitment. If a person struggles to put God first in this department, they will struggle to put God first in other areas.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

That would be a pretty self-defeating doctrine to teach for most traditional preachers.

And it begs the question: What, exactly, does a preacher want from you if he teaches against tithing?

Such a preacher is proselytizing the weak and the carnal-minded from other flocks, but to what end, and to what result?

To preach against tithing AS A LAW, frees people from error.

I've proven God time and time again that tithing opens up the windows of heaven of blessing upon me. I've heard countless fellow Christians testify of the same.

Anything done in faith brings a blessing. But when people give tithes out of LAW and legislation, they are not blessed. Multitudes can attest to that.

By the same token, when I have struggled in the past, and shorted God of my tithes, I've had multiple appliances and vehicles all break down in the same month. God will more fully bless the believer who keeps an open hand.

Not tithing won't condemn a person. Tithing won't save a person. But a person's reaction to the concept of tithing is an accurate measurement of their faith and commitment. If a person struggles to put God first in this department, they will struggle to put God first in other areas.

I disagree with your thoughts about things going wrong if we fail to tithe. That is law's curse. Cursed is one if one does not continue to do all the law. But if one gives in faith, one will be blessed!

If we make it a law, then we put ourselves under the curse and we will be cursed. And those things you describe will occur.

Gal 3:10 KJV For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Pay tithes, but NOT AS A LAW nor as an escape from cursing. Jesus became a curse for us! That is our only escape from the cursing... not paying tithes. Christ paid the price for the curse, not your tithes.

Gal 3:13 KJV Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right.

We need to give. But not because of a commandment that curses if we do not. God leads us to give. Sometimes it may be less than 10% other times 10% or other times more!

But like Paul said in Gal 5, although we are not under law, let's not use that as though we can have a cloak for our flesh to not give anything. The church still requires givers.

Why.....Churches are more like Town Clubs and Golf memberships.

It's more like...If you are to join our church pay your dues...

Do Churches trust God to provide or it's members?

It makes me sick in my soul to see churches ask for money to pay bills.

Giving a gift is one thing......but to expect 10 + 5 percent evey paycheck is a bit demanding.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Why.....Churches are more like Town Clubs and Golf memberships.

It's more like...If you are to join our church pay your dues...

Do Churches trust God to provide or it's members?

It makes me sick in my soul to see churches ask for money to pay bills.

Giving a gift is one thing......but to expect 10 + 5 percent evey paycheck is a bit demanding.

It's not a matter of expectation. There are two extremes.... make tithes a law, or expect to give nothing.

Giving causes God to bless. So it's up to us. Do we want much blessing or not? Give nothing, get nothing in return. Give much, get much blessing. It is the law of harvest. Not law of Moses. There is a difference.

Luk 6:38 KJV Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Whatever you choose to give IN FAITH, is what God will determine for your return in blessing. It's not a matter of law and legalism DEMANDING so much. It is according to what faith you have to give what amount.

If it is a demand, DO NOT DO IT! You curse yourself by turning it into a law. Until you can give in FAITH, and not obligation, you will only curse yourself.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Rico

Is Jesus the same God from the OT?

Yes he is the same yesterday, Today and for-ever.

But the Law is not.

God of the O.T. was God. not son.

God of the New test. became Son The new High Priest and ful-filled the law.

The law changed by the law maker.