Baptizing For The Dead ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Ron

Their were religious sects prominent in Israel at the time of Jesus.
The Pharisees & the Saducees.

The Saducees did not believe in a resurection and some of them who were getting saved were coming into the Church yet still holding forth that doctrine of no resurection.

Why were they being baptised if they didn't believe they were going to rise again?

Thanks for the thoughts , that's a interesting angle on this verse.

[Beard]

Michael The Disciple
The "dead" in the context is referring to JESUS. They were baptized for HIM.

I agree with Michael The Disciple...that the baptism is the baptism that Jesus had to be baptized with; that is, to drink of the cup of sufferings and death; therefore, those identified with Christ in following Him are baptized for Him in that the believer being dead to self in giving their lives for the cause of Christ, reckoning themselves dead for Christ Jesus. Then Paul goes on to identify himself with the sufferings "And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." (1 Corinthians 15:30,31). The believers are always being delivered unto death that the life of the Lord Jesus would be manifested in those who believe. For we which live are always delivered unto death that the life of the Lord Jesus would be manifested in our mortal bodies. If only there is hope only in this lifetime, then we as Paul stated are most miserable as your baptism into Jesus' death accounts for nothing. IMO

[Scott Hutchinson]

Thanks Elder Beard for the thoughts.

[Beard]

Good question Elder....

[Sam]

There are a couple of different teachings on this.

1. Baptism was not a unique Christian practice. A couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus the Jews had developed what was called the mikveh. A person self-immersed or self-baptized three times. This was for a ritual cleansing. It is still practiced today by some Jews. If John the Baptist came from an Essene background then he would have practiced self-immersion, or self-baptism, or mikveh quite often. Also, the mikveh or baptism was required when a Gentile converted to Judaism. When John the Baptist insisted that those that came to him and accepted his teaching that the Messiah was coming be self-immersed he was saying that they were coming as sinners, like a Gentile, and needed to convert to the kingdom of heaven. This practice was picked up by Jesus and those who began to follow Him had to self-immerse if they had not done this before under John's ministry. This was then carried on into the church and mikveh or self-immersion was required of new converts to the message of Jesus as Messiah. Other religions also had water cleansing rituals. Some taught that a living person could be baptized for a departed friend or relative (like the Mormons do now). Some believe that Paul was referring to this practice and was saying "Why do you guys practice baptism for your dead friends and loved ones if there is no resurrection?" In other words, he wasn't endorsing the practice, he was just saying why are you going through the effort if there is no future life?"

2. Another teaching, which my UPC pastor taught was the "the dead" referred here to Jesus and Paul was saying "why are you submitting to a ritual which depicts the burial and resurrection of Jesus if He never did rise from the dead?" In other words, if Jesus never rose from the dead, why go through a ritual which identifies yourself with the burial and resurrection of Jesus?

3. Another thought is that "the dead" here is actually in a plural form and could be translated "the dead ones." This teaching would be paraphrased as having Paul say, "Why are new folks being baptized to replace the dead ones (i.e. the folks who have died) if there is no resurrection of the dead? Maybe I didn't phrase that right. In other words, "Why do new folks get baptized to take the place of those in the church who have died and gone if there is no resurrection and those folks are just dead forever?"

[Sam]

There are a couple of different teachings on this.

1. Baptism was not a unique Christian practice. A couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus the Jews had developed what was called the mikveh. A person self-immersed or self-baptized three times. This was for a ritual cleansing. It is still practiced today by some Jews. If John the Baptist came from an Essene background then he would have practiced self-immersion, or self-baptism, or mikveh quite often. Also, the mikveh or baptism was required when a Gentile converted to Judaism. When John the Baptist insisted that those that came to him and accepted his teaching that the Messiah was coming be self-immersed he was saying that they were coming as sinners, like a Gentile, and needed to convert to the kingdom of heaven. This practice was picked up by Jesus and those who began to follow Him had to self-immerse if they had not done this before under John's ministry. This was then carried on into the church and mikveh or self-immersion was required of new converts to the message of Jesus as Messiah. Other religions also had water cleansing rituals. Some taught that a living person could be baptized for a departed friend or relative (like the Mormons do now). Some believe that Paul was referring to this practice and was saying "Why do you guys practice baptism for your dead friends and loved ones if there is no resurrection?" In other words, he wasn't endorsing the practice, he was just saying why are you going through the effort if there is no future life?"

2. Another teaching, which my UPC pastor taught was the "the dead" referred here to Jesus and Paul was saying "why are you submitting to a ritual which depicts the burial and resurrection of Jesus if He never did rise from the dead?" In other words, if Jesus never rose from the dead, why go through a ritual which identifies yourself with the burial and resurrection of Jesus?

3. Another thought is that "the dead" here is actually in a plural form and could be translated "the dead ones." This teaching would be paraphrased as having Paul say, "Why are new folks being baptized to replace the dead ones (i.e. the folks who have died) if there is no resurrection of the dead? Maybe I didn't phrase that right. In other words, "Why do new folks get baptized to take the place of those in the church who have died and gone if there is no resurrection and those folks are just dead forever?"

[Old Paths]

Originally Posted by Sam

There are a couple of different teachings on this.

1. Baptism was not a unique Christian practice. A couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus the Jews had developed what was called the mikveh. A person self-immersed or self-baptized three times. This was for a ritual cleansing. It is still practiced today by some Jews. If John the Baptist came from an Essene background then he would have practiced self-immersion, or self-baptism, or mikveh quite often. Also, the mikveh or baptism was required when a Gentile converted to Judaism. When John the Baptist insisted that those that came to him and accepted his teaching that the Messiah was coming be self-immersed he was saying that they were coming as sinners, like a Gentile, and needed to convert to the kingdom of heaven. This practice was picked up by Jesus and those who began to follow Him had to self-immerse if they had not done this before under John's ministry. This was then carried on into the church and mikveh or self-immersion was required of new converts to the message of Jesus as Messiah. Other religions also had water cleansing rituals. Some taught that a living person could be baptized for a departed friend or relative (like the Mormons do now). Some believe that Paul was referring to this practice and was saying "Why do you guys practice baptism for your dead friends and loved ones if there is no resurrection?" In other words, he wasn't endorsing the practice, he was just saying why are you going through the effort if there is no future life?"

2. Another teaching, which my UPC pastor taught was the "the dead" referred here to Jesus and Paul was saying "why are you submitting to a ritual which depicts the burial and resurrection of Jesus if He never did rise from the dead?" In other words, if Jesus never rose from the dead, why go through a ritual which identifies yourself with the burial and resurrection of Jesus?

3. Another thought is that "the dead" here is actually in a plural form and could be translated "the dead ones." This teaching would be paraphrased as having Paul say, "Why are new folks being baptized to replace the dead ones (i.e. the folks who have died) if there is no resurrection of the dead? Maybe I didn't phrase that right. In other words, "Why do new folks get baptized to take the place of those in the church who have died and gone if there is no resurrection and those folks are just dead forever?"

Sam,

I heard your No. 3 preached 40 years ago.

Makes sense to me.