McCain Is the Only Hope of the GOP & America

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Dude, do you know how expensive it is to pay for cancer treatment out of pocket? I'm so flabbergasted I'm convinced that's the dumbest assessment I've heard on this subject.

Dumber than spending ourselves rich?

We're not talking about saving up to buy a used Toyota. We're talking about health care for a family of five. Do you know how much this companies are extorting from our preachers for their health insurance? I know a pastor who pays over $700 a month for health insurance.

Big deal. I've been acquiring health insurance for my family the past two years via an individual policy for $960 US per month.

Bro...that' kind of accusation is pathetic.

Actually, the pathetic accusations are the ones about me being demonic or satanic.

I know of a few good charity hospitals. I also know there's a wait to get in. Yes a percentage of uninsured in America's uninsured are uninsured by choice. But when many of them are suddenly taken ill or enjured they go to the hospital and find themselves unable to pay the bill. Every year 25,000 Americans declare bankruptcy over medical bills they can't pay. Some of these are those who choose not to have insurance because they were dumb enough to gamble with their health and financial well being.

I have a family member that's totally uninsured. She's what you'd classify as the "non-virtuous poor." She has an unimpressive work ethic etcetera, and yet she received a replacement heart valve and a state-of-the-art pacemaker at no charge.

While they wouldn't like it, it would be better to force them into the system. If they plan right they can afford it. Please note...when they can't pay their bills they pass the cost back down to us in higher premiums. You and I pay for them with premiums that nearly break our family budgets. . . .

That's part of the problem I agree. In my opinion a single payer national health insurance system would be far better.

I've done the math and I would be light-years ahead financially if I decided to cancel my insurance and pay cash. My wife cannot work up the nerve to take such a leap of faith.

The IDEAL of the single payer system might be better than what we have now. Implementation will be anything but ideal. Think of the recent reports of the atrocious conditions at Walter Reed Army medical center. That is government health care.

Again I say (and probably for the last time) that your heart is in the right place. You just have no ability to conceive of the unintended consequences of absorbing 1/7 of the U.S. economy into the control of the government.

We don't have a problem of lack of insurance. We have a problem of an overabundance of health insurance. And lawyers. The insurance companies are running the show and calling the shots on prices, on one end, and our immoral litigious society is running up malpractice premiums on the other end. We've very nearly removed all incentive for bright young people to go into medicine.

Your hope is misguided and your faith is misplaced.

[ChristopherHall]

American Medical Association commercial...

http://www.bigshouldersdubs.com/clie...-Sarah-w2.html

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I thought Paul was post the OT covenant. The ministers of God he referred to were Roman. Since God puts all rulers in their places He can hold them accountable.

BTW, Under the OT covenant God held pagan countries responsible. He blessed those that followed the God of Israel and cursed others.

What was Daniel's advice to a pagan king? .....

Daniel 4:27
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

What did God accuse his nation of doing?.....

Ezekiel 16:48-50
48As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

What would Ezekiel say to the system we currently have???

Ezekiel 22:29
The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

What does God's Law command of the nation????!!!!

1. 'Exod 22:22-24 - Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. (KJV)'

2. 'Exod 23:10-11 - And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof: But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.'

3. 'Lev 19:9-10 - And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. (KJV)'

4. 'Deut 14:28-29 - At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest. (KJV)'

5. 'Deut 15:7-11 - If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. '

6. 'Deut 24:19-22 - When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands. When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow. When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt: therefore I command thee to do this thing. (KJV)'

7. 'Deut 26:12 - When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled; (KJV)'

8. 'Lev 23:22 - And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God. (KJV)'

9. Ps 41:1 - Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble. (KJV)

10. 'Lev 25:35 - And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee. (KJV)'

11. Prov 19:17 - He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. (KJV)

12. 'Prov 21:13 - Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard. (KJV)'

13. Prov 28:3 - A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food. (KJV)

14. Prov 28:27 - He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse. (KJV)

You claim to believe in national covenant...BUT YOU IGNORE IT'S PRINCIPLE REGARDING THE POOR. Bro...you're a Social Darwinist!

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

Dumber than spending ourselves rich?

Nine billion dollars a month in Iraq, an unjustified military action (Ron Paul hit the nail on the head tonight in the Presidential debates on this...it was wrong, immoral, and unconstitutional!)

Big deal. I've been acquiring health insurance for my family the past two years via an individual policy for $960 US per month.

Dude...I'd loose everything I owned paying helath care premiums like that. You're fat cat bro.

Actually, the pathetic accusations are the ones about me being demonic or satanic.

No abandoning the poor is Satanic.

1. 'Lev 19:10-15 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.'

2. 'Lev 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.'

3. 'Lev 25:35-55 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee. Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee. Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase. I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God. And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. Thou s'

4. 'Deut 15:1-23 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD's release. Of a foreigner thou mayest exact it again: but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release; Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it: Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day. For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee. If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee'

5. 'Deut 23:24-25 When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure; but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel. When thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbour, then thou mayest pluck the ears with thine hand; but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbour's standing corn.'

6. 'Deut 24:19-22 When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands. When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow. '

7. 'Ps 10:2-14 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined. For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth. The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them. He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity. His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity. He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor. He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net. He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones. He hath said in his heart, God'

8. 'Ps 72:2-13 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor. They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations. He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper. '

9. 'Prov 22:2-22 The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all. A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished. By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life. Thorns and snares are in the way of the froward: he that doth keep his soul shall be far from them. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender. He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail. He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor. Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease. He that loveth pureness of heart, for the grace of his lips the king shall be his friend. The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor. The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be sl'

10. 'Prov 28:3-27 A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food. They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things. Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich. Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father. He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor. He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession. The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out. When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is '

11. 'Isa 58:6-7 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?'

Friend...this was the national policy of the NATION not the voluntary generosity of private individuals!

[ChristopherHall]

I have a family member that's totally uninsured. She's what you'd classify as the "non-virtuous poor." She has an unimpressive work ethic etcetera, and yet she received a replacement heart valve and a state-of-the-art pacemaker at no charge.

Not all are that lucky. I know you don't care about them, but that's why God called me to be their voice right here before you brothers and sisters. =

I've done the math and I would be light-years ahead financially if I decided to cancel my insurance and pay cash. My wife cannot work up the nerve to take such a leap of faith.

Your wife has more brains than you do. The moment you did that you'd probably be faced with an health crisis. But go ahead...I insist...if you wiped out and lost it all and died sick like 18,000 Americans did last year maybe you'll agree with me somewhat.

The IDEAL of the single payer system might be better than what we have now. Implementation will be anything but ideal. Think of the recent reports of the atrocious conditions at Walter Reed Army medical center. That is government health care.

Spin. That was an isolated issue. My father-in-law died after waiting 8 hours in the emergency waiting room two weeks after heart surgery. It was Kettering Medical Center in Kettering Ohio. That too was an isolated issue. But if you can use Walter Reed to paint the entire system of Government health care....you have to use that to paint private health care as a whole. Of course you'll admit it's an isolated occurance.

Again I say (and probably for the last time) that your heart is in the right place. You just have no ability to conceive of the unintended consequences of absorbing 1/7 of the U.S. economy into the control of the government.

The American dollar is doing worse than many nations that have actually had the guts to do this. Bro....it would actually help business because businesses are also having a terrible time paying for this high and rising premiums. It's not fair to business.

We don't have a problem of lack of insurance. We have a problem of an overabundance of health insurance. And lawyers. The insurance companies are running the show and calling the shots on prices, on one end, and our immoral litigious society is running up malpractice premiums on the other end. We've very nearly removed all incentive for bright young people to go into medicine.

We agree quite a bit here. Insurance companies are in collusion and manipulating the system. It's going to take regulating them. And yes...litigation is crazy. In France they have caps on malpractice suits. They protect doctors quite a bit and doctors don't have the limitations they do here in the US. THAT'S FRANCE. That's what we're talking about bro. If we caught up with the rest of the world it would take care of most of the issues you're talking about here.

Your hope is misguided and your faith is misplaced.

I firmly believe that in once we have national health care it will take one generation for it to be a pillar in Christian thought just like right for black people to vote was resisted by many Christians but today racism is repugnant to most Christians. One generation and I firmly believe most Christians will look back at this issue and wonder why so many Christians didn't care to work as a nation to insure all Americans. I can feel it in my spirit.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

He's got a stellar conservative record on abortion. He is pro family and anti gay agenda. He is an American hero. He has NEVER inserted ONE earmark in any apropriations bill in his ENTIRE Senate career. He is not owned by any lobbyist, any company, corporation, special interest.

He isn't owned by the GOP. The Republicans ruled Washington in the White House and the Congress fro six years and somehow could not even ban partial birth abortion. They could not make the tax cuts permanent. They got messed up in the Jack Abramoff lobbyist scandal. They spent money worse than the Democrats ever did. W NEVER vetoed ONE spending bill for excessive and wasteful spending. They wasted a golden opportunity in six years. The only thing they really did right was the original tax cuts, the Supreme Court appointments and the War on Terror, although Rumsfeld's advice was wrong (on a smaller force in Iraq---one which McCain originally spoke out in opposition of and one which the "surge" has proven to be right.) Their mismanagement cost us the majority in the Congress. That was on a "true" conservatives watch, one that reads the Bible everyday and is an avowed Christian.

McCain broke with his party he says whenever he felt it was in the best interests of his country. When he has had to choose between his party and his country, his country will win every time.

He will fight this war on terror right, something the Democrats will not.

Romney has a much more liberal record than McCain. He was Pro-Choice when it was convenient when running for Governor of Massachusetts. He suddenly is now pro-life? Please! The Dems will eat his lunch if he is the nominee. They will recycle those old John Kerry flip-flop commercials and paint him in a most unfavorable light. At least with McCain you know where he stands.

If you stay home this election---you are guaranteeing that the Dems will win the White House. And that, my friends, is a risk not worth taking. Don't stay home if your man doesn't get in, or the GOP nominee is less conservative than you. You might have to vote just to keep Hillary or Obama out.

Be wise. Think beyond Rush Limbaugh's radio program. I listen to him everyday and he certainly is not the bastion of godliness! Besides he admits to being right 98.9% of the time.

This time he's wrong about McCain.

We aren't always going to get Ronald Reagan every time, unfortunately.

If he is our only hope.

Then throw hope away.

Plant a new seed and then hope 4 years from now.

We have a real candidate.

He will not nominate conservative Justices.

He wants to go down one who works with the Dems.

I bet Libermann gets a job in his cabinet.

I can'e even imagine what things will be with Hillary being president.

What are we Crazy?

Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush .... Clinton!

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

What was Daniel's advice to a pagan king? .....

Daniel 4:27
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

What did God accuse his nation of doing?.....

Ezekiel 16:48-50
48As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

What would Ezekiel say to the system we currently have???

Ezekiel 22:29
The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

What does God's Law command of the nation????!!!!

1. 'Exod 22:22-24 - Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. (KJV)'

2. 'Exod 23:10-11 - And six years thou shalt sow thy land, and shalt gather in the fruits thereof: But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.'

3. 'Lev 19:9-10 - And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. (KJV)'

4. 'Deut 14:28-29 - At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest. (KJV)'

5. 'Deut 15:7-11 - If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. '

6. 'Deut 24:19-22 - When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands. When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow. When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt: therefore I command thee to do this thing. (KJV)'

7. 'Deut 26:12 - When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled; (KJV)'

8. 'Lev 23:22 - And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God. (KJV)'

9. Ps 41:1 - Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble. (KJV)

10. 'Lev 25:35 - And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee. (KJV)'

11. Prov 19:17 - He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. (KJV)

12. 'Prov 21:13 - Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard. (KJV)'

13. Prov 28:3 - A poor man that oppresseth the poor is like a sweeping rain which leaveth no food. (KJV)

14. Prov 28:27 - He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse. (KJV)

You claim to believe in national covenant...BUT YOU IGNORE IT'S PRINCIPLE REGARDING THE POOR. Bro...you're a Social Darwinist!

I guess I have to answer your questions but you are so arrogant that you don't have to answer mine........

I agree with ALL these verses in the context in which they are given. Some are for the nation, some for the individual, and some for the church. But you shouldn't believe any of them. They are the Old Covenant.

When have I ignored it's principles? And please try to answer my questions.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I thought Paul was post the OT covenant. The ministers of God he referred to were Roman. Since God puts all rulers in their places He can hold them accountable.

BTW, Under the OT covenant God held pagan countries responsible. He blessed those that followed the God of Israel and cursed others.

I would like to know why we should expect a civil government to execute someone for being a homosexual...what verse

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Nine billion dollars a month in Iraq, an unjustified military action (Ron Paul hit the nail on the head tonight in the Presidential debates on this...it was wrong, immoral, and unconstitutional!)

This line is equate to the bag of trash I took out this morning. Niether you nor Ron Paul have a clue about the war in Iraq. You might better leave that one to those who have been there. And I don't mean the few wimps they drag up to openly protest because they just signed up for the college benifits. Bro. the line above has you labeling yourself a hypocrit. You can't sit here and preach with scripture about how we need to be taking care of those less fortunate then say Iraq is immoral and wrong. Maybe you have been to France and Canada, but until you do a public service tour in Iraq you will appear smarter to just be silent.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I would like to know why we should expect a civil government to execute someone for being a homosexual...what verse

Leviticus 20:13

10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of [1] his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.