No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth? - Page 17

thephnxman · #**161** 03-15-2018, 07:37 PM

His NAME is Jesus!

It's so difficult to be right all the time: it's even more difficult to remain humble.
I'll do my best, in spite of so many people trying to be more humble than I.

Brother Villa

Aquila · #**162** 03-15-2018, 07:51 PM

There are elements of Arminian prevenient grace that are thought to have been extended unto all men from the cross, it precedes the grace that saves, yet makes it possible, for it is through this grace that God draws the souls of all men. And yes, being Arminian in nature, it is believed that it can be resisted.

The forgiveness given to all from this perspective is a lifting of absolute condemnation, and a granting of the very opportunity to be saved and forgiven as an individual.

But I digress.

thephnxman · #**163** 03-16-2018, 12:41 AM

His NAME is Jesus!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

There are elements of Arminian prevenient grace that are thought to have been extended unto all men
from the cross, it precedes the grace that saves, yet makes it possible, for it is through this grace that
God draws the souls of all men. And yes, being Arminian in nature, it is believed that it can be resisted.

The forgiveness given to all from this perspective is a lifting of absolute condemnation, and a granting
of the very opportunity to be saved and forgiven as an individual But I digress

Which begs the question:
How can anyone's doctrine of grace precede the grace that saves?
AND YOU ARE STUDYING THAT?

Brother Villa

Esaias · #**164** 03-16-2018, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!

It's so difficult to be right all the time: it's even more difficult to remain humble.
I'll do my best, in spite of so many people trying to be more humble than I.

Brother Villa

Huh?

Evang.Benincasa · #**165** 03-16-2018, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Huh?

Yes, I had the same thoughts.

thephnxman · #**166** 03-16-2018, 10:29 AM

His NAME is Jesus!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

The Greek does not allow for a difference between forgiveness and remission. Its the same
Greek word translated as either forgiveness or remission.
The Spirit does what a dictionary cannot

That means nobody since then has needed to be forgiven. There is no Scripture which says
"the whole world was forgiven".
What is "Propitiation"?

That means nobody since then is under sentence of death, which means everyone - EVERYONE -
is already saved. As for mercy being extended, God has always been extending mercy. The birth of
Messiah was an act of mercy from God toward man. The calling of Abraham, the saving of Noah, all were
examples of God's mercy extended toward man. To suggest "it is at THAT point mercy was extended"
means previous to THAT point, no mercy had been extended. Which is not true.
Saved solely by your interpretation of "forgiveness";
Yes, the Birth of Jesus is an act of mercy, to bring us to grace;
Abraham is God allowing for an "elect"; Noah, "...found grace..."; but today,
the Holy Spirit (grace) "...has been poured out..."; mercy could not wash away
our (humanity's) sin: that's why animal sacrifices were instituted;
of course mercy was extended, first to Abraham's seed, and to the whole world
via their testimony. But now we have a "...mediator of a better covenant, which
was established upon better promises."

Psalm 25:6-7 show that your statement here is incorrect, or at least badly worded. Jeremiah 31:34 shows
that in forgiveness, God does NOT remember sin.
Beautiful. Is he writing of the NAME and grace that was not yet evident, or of
God's mercies and love shown through the Law?

Forgiveness and remission are identical, and nobody is forgiven of their sins unless and until they repent
and receive apostolic Christian baptism.

Forgiveness and remission are transferable, equated by man's understanding: but we
must understand that we must endeavor to compare content and context...always.

NOTE: Mercy was concentrated (so to speak) upon Abraham's seed, but never
forgetting the promise "...even unto the uttermost part of the world." And also:
"God having provided some better thing for us, that they WITHOUT US should not be
made perfect."

Brother Villa

Aquila · #**167** 03-16-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!

Which begs the question:
How can anyone's doctrine of grace precede the grace that saves?
AND YOU ARE STUDYING THAT?

Brother Villa

I've studied the doctrines of grace many years ago. I might revisit it. Here's my understanding...

The very same grace that draws a man, saves a man, and keeps a man. These are essentially works of the Spirit, through the unmerited favor of God.

Prevenient Grace (some believe it is selective, others believe it is universal, hence my post which was largely inspired by your earlier post):

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Saving Grace (only received by those who obey the Gospel):

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Sanctifying Grace (only experienced through continual prayer and submission):

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

thephnxman · #**168** 03-16-2018, 01:31 PM

His NAME is Jesus!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've studied the doctrines of grace many years ago. I might revisit it. Here's my understanding...
The very same grace that draws a man, saves a man, and keeps a man. These are essentially works
of the Spirit,through the unmerited favor of God.
Prevenient Grace (some believe it is selective, others believe it is universal, hence my post which
was largely inspired by your earlier post):
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at
the last day.
Saving Grace (only received by those who obey the Gospel):
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for
the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the
Lord our God shall call.
Sanctifying Grace (only experienced through continual prayer and submission):
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both
now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Grace is apportioned to believers as a whole, and to individuals.
To them who believe and obey, corporately: "...by grace are ye saved through
faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...". Everyone of us must
all go through that same door. However, there are also phases in our lives, to
which the natural realm also attests.
1Jn 2:12-13: "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you
for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one..."

And what is grace, but the promise given to us from the prophets and
now delivered unto us since the Day of Pentecost: "...ye SHALL receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Brother Villa

1ofthechosen · #**169** 03-16-2018, 03:07 PM

He is the Logos which the "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance" defines as "something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse) also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation."
That's says enough!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
This is a One God, Holy Ghost Filled, Tongue Talkin', Jesus Name channel where it's all in Him!
Apostolic Truth! His Truth Is Marching On!
SUBSCRIBE to my channel!!

Amanah · #**170** 03-16-2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

He is the Logos which the "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance" defines as "something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse) also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation."
That's says enough!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
This is a One God, Holy Ghost Filled, Tongue Talkin', Jesus Name channel where it's all in Him!
Apostolic Truth! His Truth Is Marching On!
SUBSCRIBE to my channel!!

Hi and welcome to forum!!!