Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Paul’s letters indicate women were deeply involved in his ministry. Perhaps the best example of women’s involvement is in his letter to the church at Rome. In the sixteenth chapter of Romans, Paul mentions numerous women in active and prominent roles in the church. The first is Phoebe who served as a deacon in Cenchreae (vs. 1-2). Priscilla is called his fellow worker (vs. 3-4). Mary is mentioned as diligent worker in the church at Rome (v. 6). Junia, a woman, is a called an apostle (v.7 see NRSV, KJV, NKJV). Three women—Tryphena, Tryphosa, and Persis—are mentioned as hard workers for the Lord (v. 12).

In other letters of Paul, one finds references to women praying and prophesizing in public worship (1 Cor. 11:5) and contending at his side in the cause of the gospel (Philip. 4:23). Also, in his letter to Timothy, Paul gives instructions about women deacons (1 Tim. 3:11).

Coupled with these examples of women in ministry are three basic theological truths, which seem to indicate women should be involved in all aspects of the church’s life. First, There is no indication that any spiritual gift was limited to men (1 Cor. 12:7-11, 14:31, 1 Peter 4:10). Second, all God’s people were called his priests without any hierarchy of males (1 Peter 2:9, Rev. 1:6, Rev. 5:10). Third, all human distinctions were removed in Christ who united them (Gal. 3:28).

Oh brother...here we go again w/ trying to force what's not in the text itself! Hmm, I suppose that Phoebe was "Paul's Teacher" huh'? "...for she has been a helper to many, INCLUDING ME"

So worn-out & silly!

[Sister Alvear]

Romans 16:7
"Greet Andronicus and Junias (Junia) my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was." NIV (The NAS and NASU both use "outstanding", the KJV uses "of note" meaning notable.)

English
Greek
Strongs Greet
aspasasthe
782 1.Andronicus
Andronikon
408 and
kai
2532
2.Junia
Iounian
2458 (the)
tous
3588 3.relatives
sungeneis
4773
my
mou
3450 and
kai
2532 4.fellow prisoners
sunaichmalootous
4869 my
mou
3450
who
hoitines
3748 are
eisin
1526 5.outstanding
episeemoi
1978 6.among
en
1722
the
tois
3588 7.apostles
apostolois
652 who
hoi
3739 also
kai
2532
8.before
pro
4253 me
emou
1700 were
gegonan
1096
in
en
1722 Christ
Christoo
5547
Andronicus means "man of victory".
Iounias-Junia , a common Latin female name meaning "youthful", a Christian woman at Rome, mentioned by Paul as one of his kinsfolk and fellow prisoners, Thayer's Greek Definitions. Also see the following pages for more proof.
relatives - Could mean related by blood, of the same race, or of the tribe of Benjamin.
fellow prisoners - They had once all three been imprisoned together, most likely for being Christian leaders. Paul would have gotten to know both of them very well.
outstanding - Episemos ep-is'-ay-mos - remarkable, eminent Strong's Greek-Hebrew Dictionary.
among - En, translated "among" 97 other times in the NT, in Matthew 20:26 "to be great among you" uses the same word. Expresses the idea of being within a group.
apostles - These were not of the 12, but apostle (meaning one who is sent) remained a spiritual gift, 1 Cor 12:28, and we have biblical proof that others became known as apostles as they received this spiritual gift or calling. Paul and Barnabas were apostles, Col.1:1, Acts 14:3,4.; also Silvanas and Timothy, read both 1 Thes 1:1, and 2:6.
before -These two were "in Christ" before Paul, meaning baptized before Paul was, and thus preceded him as Christians. Andronicus and Junia had more experience than Paul!

[Sister Alvear]

According to Douglas Moo, the UBS4 and NA27 Greek New Testatments cite "Junia" as a variant reading.13 This variant reading is attested to by Codexes Sinaiticus (a), A, B*,C, D*, F,G, P. The GNT also cites "Julia" as a variant reading. Support for this female name is evidenced by P46, 6, itar,b, vgmss, copbo, eth, and Church Father, Jerome.

According to many scholars, Junia was a common name that appeared in Greek and Latin inscriptions and literature. Brooten states, "the female Latin name Junia occurs over 250 times among inscriptions from ancient Rome alone."14 Peter Lampe has also discovered over 250 examples of the female name Junia.15 Bruce Metzer, editor of the GNT, likewise agrees that Junia is well attested to in ancient literature.

a. Discussion. Support for a female named Julia is evidenced by P46, a papyrus manuscript, dating from around a.d. 200. This papyrus represents the earliest known and most reliable testimony in support of Julia. The 3rd century Coptic, 4th century Vulgate, and fifth century Latin versions provide additional early support for this female name. These early manuscripts clearly support a female named "Julia." Junia, the other variant reading, is supported by the earliest known manuscripts available. Sinaiticus dates from the fourth century and is earliest surviving complete copy of the Greek New Testament.16 Codexes A, B, C, D date from the 4th to 5th century and represent a broad spectrum of "text types." These early witnesses, by themselves, do not clearly reveal how an unaccented Iounian should be translated. The cumulative evidence provided by other ancient manuscripts, the existence of "Junia" as a common name in ancient times, and the lack of any evidence for "Junias" cannot be ignored. It is not unreasonable to state, as Moo does, that these early witnesses attest to "Junia."

b. Assessment. The quality and age of the above manuscripts provide strong support for a female name whether it be rendered "Julia" or "Junia." The research from many different scholars clearly support that a female named Junia occurred frequently in ancient writings.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Both the Hebrew (Nebrah), and Greek (Proph) used for prophetess means (female preacher). (See Young's Concordance, Pg. 780.)

The word "Prophet" means a public expounder.

The word "Prophesy" means to speak forth, or flow forth. The Bible says in 1 Cor. 14:3, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto MEN to edification, and exhortation and comfort."

The dictionary says, prophesy is "to speak under divine inspiration...to preach."

Therefore we learn from the original translation, from the Bible interpretation, and from the dictionary, that to prophesy means more than to tell the future, but it is to speak publicly about the past, present, or future. It is to preach under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

The Old and New Testament prophets and prophetesses were preachers of God's Word.

Even if the words prophet and preacher could be separated, how could anyone prophesy to bring exhortation, comfort and edification to the church, if she were forbidden to speak in church and was to keep silent?

Would God inspire and anoint someone to do something that was wrong and sinful???

Did Moses strike the rock disobediently? Did GOD USE HIS ACT? Does this mean Moses was right? Here's your sign!

What's funny here is how you just keep plodding along w/ quotes about prophecy as if that invalidates I Tim. 2:11-15 [WHICH YOU'VE YET TO ADEQUATELY DEAL W/] & I Cor. 14:34. Funny, I guess I'll just keep quoting I Tim. 2:11-15 & watch you ignoe it over & over! We've been doing this for years now & you just keep copying & pasting thwe same ol' stuff!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Cor. 14: 34-35 does not say anything about women preachers. If Paul intended this verse as a general rule to bar all women from speaking in church, then they cannot teach Sunday School, testify, pray, prophesy, sing, or even get saved, and this would contradict the rest of the Bible (Acts 2:4; Acts 2:16-18)

Big yawn...So, I can't tell you what I Cor. 14:34 does mean, so I'll try to tell you what it "can't mean"! Even your hero Dr. Scheel said this is a tough verse to deal w/! How about just obeying it then??

I've told you ad nauseum that the term "Lal-eh-o" is alternately translated "to preach" at least 6x's! Ughh, there's you rverse forbidding women "to preach"..."when you come together"! But, I'm sure you'll just plod along like I didn't point this out [as you've done for about 2 years now] w/ quotes about "prophecy"! If it makes you feel better.......

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Socialite

It's still a biblical command. Can you not read?

Put away your eraser and quit trying to take away from the Word!

A greeting is not equivolent to God's order of creation & the violation there-of. "For Adam was FIRST formed, THEN Eve."

And, I HAVE done this before [as well as many I know]...did it say to do it "everytime":_____________? Nope! So, your silly "Kis" argument is moot in my case. And YES, I have said publically that we should be doing this still! Next.....

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by rdp

You're tired argument about the kiss demonstrable poor "hermeneutics," not to mention an equivocation fallacy. It says, "I cannot explain I Tim. 2:11-15, so I'll just try to poke holes in his argument by asking if he greets everyone w/ a kiss!" According to this logic NONE of the Bible is for us today !

It's all "culturally relative"! Way to go prax!

The kiss question doesn't relegate the whole bible to not being relevant today. What it does do is prove that some commands in the new testament were given because of culture. Does this proof directly map over into the arena of women preachers? Nope. But it still provides us with a principle that opens up the possibility that women preachers were banned due to culture.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by jfrog

rdp, why is it that none of your positions are ever consistent?

jfrog...I don't even take you seriously! Learn to obey I Tim. 2:11-15, imstead of explaining it away...then talk to me about "consistency"!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

just because Jezabel was a false prophetess does not mean there were not true ones...there were false prophets also...it is our job to try the spirits and see if they are of God.
And for the record once again I am not promoting women ruling men in any way...I am just saying God can and will use a women.

God is the obne instructed thru Paul "I do not allow a woman to teach....". But, just keep plodding along like it's not there! Blessings anyway!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

In Paul's day the church was like most mission fields...for many years we had few buildings but many house churches...in fact we still have many house churches for lack of buildings...Philip's daughter's prophecied I am sure in those house churches...where else would they have prophecied????

For about the 500th time to you: PROPHECY IS NOT AN EXPOSITION FROM THE SCRIPTURES!!