Do you believe the innocent party in a situation

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

The defrauder is at fault for making their spouse vulnerable. They're not at fault for the choice to commit an actual sin.

NO ONE can make you sin unless they hold a gun to your head. It's called personal responsibility.

People are daily tempted to steal (someone working around money who is about to have their home foreclosed on, their children are without food, etc. - would be very tempted to steal, but still shouldn't), murder (burning bed), etc. No matter the temptation making the deliberate choice to sin is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Except that the scripture says - "Defraud ye not one the other.....that Satan tempt you not." Explicitly, the scripture is saying to me - "You are going to cause that man to sin if you withhold yourself from him except by mutual consent. You are putting him in the way of temptation - YOU ARE."

I would never put my husband in that situation. IMO, I would be equally culpable. Then I'd have to rip his heart out, drive down to the river and feed it to an alligator. Of course, all the while, putting the blame on him.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I've observed numerous adultery situations, very few of them were related to defrauding. Most of them were because of emotional reasons. The person wanted to feel like hot stuff with the opposite sex, they were going through a difficult patch in their marriage and finding someone new was an easy fix, or they simply had an adulterous heart. The last one is the most common reason.

And the point being made has been that "defrauding" is not ALWAYS the reason for adultery. I brought up the point only because I wanted to discuss that aspect of it.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Right. I wanted to point that out earlier as the discussion appeared to be, possibly, broadbrushing in some ways because I kept pointing the discussion back to "defrauding", but I waited until you brought it up.

I had been thinking all along that there are, more than likely, some valuable lessons and insights you could or would have liked to share in order to broaden the scope of the conversation, but being a public forum it is wise of you to use discretion, for your own sake.

Yes, it's been hard to keep it "general", but I have so far.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

The defrauder is at fault for making their spouse vulnerable. They're not at fault for the choice to commit an actual sin.

NO ONE can make you sin unless they hold a gun to your head. It's called personal responsibility.

People are daily tempted to steal (someone working around money who is about to have their home foreclosed on, their children are without food, etc. - would be very tempted to steal, but still shouldn't), murder (burning bed), etc. No matter the temptation making the deliberate choice to sin is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Agree - agree - agree!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Yes, it's been hard to keep it "general", but I have so far.

Yes, I saw you were fighting that, but I didn't know what to do about it, but trust your judgment.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Agree - agree - agree!

Money and food are not as tempting as sex - toe torry! Don't even try the chocolate thang!!!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Money and food are not as tempting as sex - toe torry! Don't even try the chocolate thang!!!

Oh, get serious - - you've never been hungry so you can't say that. If your family was starving you might do anything to get food. You wouldn't have the strength for sex. LOL!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Oh, get serious - - you've never been hungry so you can't say that. If your family was starving you might do anything to get food. You wouldn't have the strength for sex. LOL!

Then you would just fall asleep after you ate!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Except that the scripture says - "Defraud ye not one the other.....that Satan tempt you not." Explicitly, the scripture is saying to me - "You are going to cause that man to sin if you withhold yourself from him except by mutual consent. You are putting him in the way of temptation - YOU ARE."

This is the point that we are disagreeing on.

I don't see that it says you are going to CAUSE him to SIN. It's saying that you're going to cause him to be TEMPTED, which is very inconsiderate.

We can definitely cause someone to be tempted, but we can not cause them to sin. Otherwise, we'd all be in bad shape.... if someone else had the ability to CAUSE us to sin.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This is the point that we are disagreeing on.

I don't see that is says you are going to CAUSE him to SIN. It's saying that you're going to cause him to be TEMPTED, which is very inconsiderate.

We can definitely cause someone to be tempted, but we can not cause them to sin. Otherwise, we'd all be in bad shape.... if someone else had the ability to CAUSE us to sin.

Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."

I Cor 7:5 "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

I Cor 8:9 "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

I Cor 8:11 "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?"

In a nutshell:

I Cor 8:12 "But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ."

It appears that I Cor 8 is saying that by being a stumblingbock to a brother, when they are weak, causing them to sin, we are also sinning.

Can't say much more than - we are responsible, to some degree, for what we can cause our husband or brother/sister in Christ to be tempted by and thereby falling into sin. We are culpable also.

We can disagree until the cows come home, but the scripture says.........