Tithing…Is it a command?

[good samaritan]

1 Corinthians 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15 But I have used none of these things:neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me:for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

I know many pastors who have left promising careers to answer the call of God on their lives. I know many pastors who will give the shirt off their backs in order to minister to the needs around them. If a pastor lives in a nice house or drives a nice care he is viewed by many (even in the church) as a hireling. The ministry is not a place of leisure, but instead is a trial of faith.

I never have felt strange to hear teaching to support the ministry because that is what the Bible teaches. So many people want to make the ministry look greedy. I agree with what Paul says in verse 15 that I don't say it cause I want it done unto me. I would rather not receive a penny then for the sacrifices and commitments that I have made to be turned around and said I was doing it for the money.

I have learned that the ministry is sometimes the most lonely and abused people of them all. God's grace is sufficient.

[JamesGlen]

"The ministry"....

Modern day Pentecostal translation: pastor



Where does this stuff come from.? There's lots of ministries and lots of ministers-teachers, preachers, evangelists, nursing home workers etc etc.

"The ministry"= pastor
These modern day Pentecostal terms - Sigh

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I know many pastors who have left promising careers to answer the call of God on their lives. I know many pastors who will give the shirt off their backs in order to minister to the needs around them. If a pastor lives in a nice house or drives a nice care he is viewed by many (even in the church) as a hireling. The ministry is not a place of leisure, but instead is a trial of faith.

I never have felt strange to hear teaching to support the ministry because that is what the Bible teaches. So many people want to make the ministry look greedy. I agree with what Paul says in verse 15 that I don't say it cause I want it done unto me. I would rather not receive a penny then for the sacrifices and commitments that I have made to be turned around and said I was doing it for the money.

I have learned that the ministry is sometimes the most lonely and abused people of them all. God's grace is sufficient.

The Law struck a balance. We know that the priesthood was supported by the tithe. However, they were also forbidden to own land and real property. This prevented the system from becoming one of personal gain and profit. The Roman Catholic Church instituted tithing in the 700's. As a result, they established that their priests would live in church provided rectories and on properties owned by the parish. Like the Levitical priests of old, they were stewards of these provisions, they didn't own them. This was intended to insure a decent standard of living for priests, without allowing them to aggregate hoards of personal wealth. Of course, many priests skimmed off the top of the church's provisions or enforced additional offerings to pad their own pockets. But technically this was a violation of church polity.

If pastors wish to receive tithes as the Levites, why not live as the Levites?

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

"The ministry"....

Modern day Pentecostal translation: pastor



Where does this stuff come from.? There's lots of ministries and lots of ministers-teachers, preachers, evangelists, nursing home workers etc etc.

"The ministry"= pastor
These modern day Pentecostal terms - Sigh

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

We get the term pastor from the Bible. I understand that the ministry is much broader than just one office or calling. I also feel the need to support other ministries within the Church, as well as the body itself. No matter our personal views God will see to it that who he calls he will furnish the means to do it (no matter the specific calling).

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Law struck a balance. We know that the priesthood was supported by the tithe. However, they were also forbidden to own land and real property. This prevented the system from becoming one of personal gain and profit. The Roman Catholic Church instituted tithing in the 700's. As a result, they established that their priests would live in church provided rectories and on properties owned by the parish. Like the Levitical priests of old, they were stewards of these provisions, they didn't own them. This was intended to insure a decent standard of living for priests, without allowing them to aggregate hoards of personal wealth. Of course, many priests skimmed off the top of the church's provisions or enforced additional offerings to pad their own pockets. But technically this was a violation of church polity.

If pastors wish to receive tithes as the Levites, why not live as the Levites?

I have come to the conclusion that tithing is not a NT command on the Church therefore I don't teach it to be. I do think that tithing holds a principle or it would not even be included in the law. Personally I don't see how a person can be right in their heart and not give as little as a tenth in some form. Jesus said unless our righteousness exceed that of the pharisee's (law). The law commanded tithing and we should go beyond that.

Whether in a church offering pan or not, Christians should give of themselves through charitable endeavors (feeding someone that's homeless, buying a poor kid some school clothes, etc...).To be Biblical we should support the ministry in our church, but I agree that mandating tithes is not a method given by the apostles.

The problem with the the law is that it placed limits on righteousness. If you do this and that you are righteous. The pharisees became lofty because of their ability to keep the law in tithing as do many today. The Spirit of God does not cause us to feel that it is useless to give, but instead it causes us to give more and do it with a pure heart. There are people on both sides of this subject who are not inwardly right.

There are people who tithe and make offerings out of a pure heart and their are people who don't believe tithing is necessary but still liberally give out of pure heart (I am sure exceeding 10%). There are people who tithe out obligation and are proud and there are those who don't believe in tithing because they have a love for the things of the world. Giving is a matter of the heart.

Although iron sharpeneth iron and it is good to discuss our beliefs in order to have sound doctrine, we must not lose the source of our righteousness. The amounts we give are limitless when we truly are following the Holy Ghost.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We get the term pastor from the Bible. I understand that the ministry is much broader than just one office or calling. I also feel the need to support other ministries within the Church, as well as the body itself. No matter our personal views God will see to it that who he calls he will furnish the means to do it (no matter the specific calling).

One thing also i can not understand is how the "tithes" have to be spend.
I listen somebody (i dont think this happens to big organizations) to say that "if the church is small then all tithes belong to the pastor, if is big then money should be share with the others in minisrty and for the church planting money will come from offerings"

I find it strange, because those people teach that if you dont tithe you are robbing God . But who is robbing God when money dont go totaly to the ministry?
I dont want to put any weeds between us. I know ministers that are "professional" and i dont have a problem with that. But i have also to honor the miniosters from our church that never stopped to work , never asking for tithes and our church (thanks God) is growing!
I think that the "tithe: issue comes from our fear that God will not provide His minisrty.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by peter83

One thing also i can not understand is how the "tithes" have to be spend.
I listen somebody (i dont think this happens to big organizations) to say that "if the church is small then all tithes belong to the pastor, if is big then money should be share with the others in minisrty and for the church planting money will come from offerings"

I find it strange, because those people teach that if you dont tithe you are robbing God . But who is robbing God when money dont go totaly to the ministry?
I dont want to put any weeds between us. I know ministers that are "professional" and i dont have a problem with that. But i have also to honor the miniosters from our church that never stopped to work , never asking for tithes and our church (thanks God) is growing!
I think that the "tithe: issue comes from our fear that God will not provide His minisrty.

For our church personally, it is up to the assembly to decide (the pastor is a part of that assembly). The church treasury belongs to the Church. It is important to have elders in the church who will be whistle blowers and not let any single person get out of control (Gods' anointing will make the way for the minister).

There are pastors that want total control over everything and that is setting themselves up for disaster. Pastors who dictate may take all the credit when they are doing good, but they will have all the responsibility when things go wrong. We should share in Church privileges and responsibilities.

Tithing in the law didn't go to one Levite, it went to the whole tribe of Levi, and a certain tithe was consumed by the giver and the poor. To be consistant all the ministry would have to be included and none could own personal property. We are not under the law so tithing is not an apostolic command, but it is a principle. I do think there is a principle to honor God with our increase and also to bless those who labor in the gospel found within tithing.

Much of how people feel about tithing in the church today is more from tradition and it does have a biblical basis. Tradition is not entirely bad and neither is it easy to overcome. Again the heart of man is where God dwells and it is our heart that he sees. I believe tithing has a time honored prophetic meaning that is illustrated through Christ. I believe we the Church are a tithe unto God, Jesus Christ being the firstfruits.

The ten lepers that Jesus healed only one came back to worship. That which is Gods' will return unto Him.

[good samaritan]

I dont want to put any weeds between us. I know ministers that are "professional" and i dont have a problem with that. But i have also to honor the miniosters from our church that never stopped to work , never asking for tithes and our church (thanks God) is growing!
I think that the "tithe: issue comes from our fear that God will not provide His minisrty.

Peter 83, no weeds between us, in fact I have enjoyed the interaction. I hope I have not been coming off offensive. I agree with much of your logic. I do teach tithing, but I don't use Malachi as a fear tactic. I don't feel it is rightly dividing the Word of God. Tithing is something for us to learn from and not to rest upon.

Ministers actually sell themselves short when they operate out of fear. People give little when they are operating out of fear, but they will give much when they are operating out of faith.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

For our church personally, it is up to the assembly to decide (the pastor is a part of that assembly). The church treasury belongs to the Church. It is important to have elders in the church who will be whistle blowers and not let any single person get out of control (Gods' anointing will make the way for the minister).

There are pastors that want total control over everything and that is setting themselves up for disaster. Pastors who dictate may take all the credit when they are doing good, but they will have all the responsibility when things go wrong. We should share in Church privileges and responsibilities.

Tithing in the law didn't go to one Levite, it went to the whole tribe of Levi, and a certain tithe was consumed by the giver and the poor. To be consistant all the ministry would have to be included and none could own personal property. We are not under the law so tithing is not an apostolic command, but it is a principle. I do think there is a principle to honor God with our increase and also to bless those who labor in the gospel found within tithing.

Much of how people feel about tithing in the church today is more from tradition and it does have a biblical basis. Tradition is not entirely bad and neither is it easy to overcome. Again the heart of man is where God dwells and it is our heart that he sees. I believe tithing has a time honored prophetic meaning that is illustrated through Christ. I believe we the Church are a tithe unto God, Jesus Christ being the firstfruits.

The ten lepers that Jesus healed only one came back to worship. That which is Gods' will return unto Him.

thanks .
I am not a fun of "endless discussions" and the way you answered me is peaceful and constructive!
God bless you and your church.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Peter 83, no weeds between us, in fact I have enjoyed the interaction. I hope I have not been coming off offensive. I agree with much of your logic. I do teach tithing, but I don't use Malachi as a fear tactic. I don't feel it is rightly dividing the Word of God. Tithing is something for us to learn from and not to rest upon.

Ministers actually sell themselves short when they operate out of fear. People give little when they are operating out of fear, but they will give much when they are operating out of faith.

Originally Posted by peter83

thanks .
I am not a fun of "endless discussions" and the way you answered me is peaceful and constructive!
God bless you and your church.

Also i have to say that i dont faind nothing bad for pastors get paid (if God provides them, thanks God)
Not even have a problem with the tithe tradition (which is not a rule)
The only thing is "bad" is when people get reach from the gospel.
Amen. God bless.