From David Wasmundt.....

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If I wrote a book and entitled it "Apostates of the Apostolic Church" and the book was about those who were anti-outward standards would that be seen as an attack?????????

No...it would be seen as false doctrine!!!

actually, not an attack....just a bad opinion...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

No, it is not an attack. Why is it that everytime a question is asked, or a challenge is made.. oh nevermind.

He's asking about the moniker....not the questions in the book. Epley obviously considers being labeled a Neo-Pharisee to be an attack. Perhaps if Epley wrote a book on standards and called all liberals Jezabels the liberals would consider that a attack too.

[stmatthew]

I personally think the book title would be considered degrading to any standard believing person. It plainly labels them as a Pharisee.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He's asking about the moniker....not the questions in the book. Epley obviously considers being labeled a Neo-Pharisee to be an attack. Perhaps if Epley wrote a book on standards and called all liberals Jezabels the liberals would consider that a attack too.

True. Anyone reading the gospels knows that the harshest rebuke was reserved for the Pharisees see Mt. 23. So to label standard keepers as Neo-Pharisees seems meant to be offensive. Do we ever cross the line I am sure we do. I have done so just to throw gasoline on the fire on these forums. And most of the time it worked. But act as if the book would not be offensive to holiness minded people is not being honest. I read all three books from the three authors they were mostly the same to me.

[Steve Epley]

When Pope's book was first being distributed around Atlanta I was asked to come and teach against the book and I did so. I took 2 nites and refuted every question raised. Sent him a challenge to a public discussion and never heard from him. A family member told me years later he regreted writing the book?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

True. Anyone reading the gospels knows that the harshest rebuke was reserved for the Pharisees see Mt. 23. So to label standard keepers as Neo-Pharisees seems meant to be offensive. Do we ever cross the line I am sure we do. I have done so just to throw gasoline on the fire on these forums. And most of the time it worked. But act as if the book would not be offensive to holiness minded people is not being honest. I read all three books from the three authors they were mostly the same to me.

Yes I would agree and the term pharisee has been battered around by Christians to refer to others that don't keep standards either. Dan Alecia likes to use the term baptismal regenerationalist as though it's a dirty word, trinitarians like to call us Jesus Only, which used to be a slur and meant we denied Father and Spirit to some.

However, I disagree with the characature that only people who believe in a strict outward for of standards as you do are "Holiness minded people" and not others. Most Christians would say they believe in Holiness and many that don't believe like you do would still say they believe in an outward holiness as well.

I suppose even MOW might have a standard....nothing less than speedos in public...though that does not leave much left

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

When Pope's book was first being distributed around Atlanta I was asked to come and teach against the book and I did so. I took 2 nites and refuted every question raised. Sent him a challenge to a public discussion and never heard from him. A family member told me years later he regreted writing the book?

Well that's hearsay. If you heard him first hand that's different.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes I would agree and the term pharisee has been battered around by Christians to refer to others that don't keep standards either. Dan Alecia likes to use the term baptismal regenerationalist as though it's a dirty word, trinitarians like to call us Jesus Only, which used to be a slur and meant we denied Father and Spirit to some.

However, I disagree with the characature that only people who believe in a strict outward for of standards as you do are "Holiness minded people" and not others. Most Christians would say they believe in Holiness and many that don't believe like you do would still say they believe in an outward holiness as well.

I suppose even MOW might have a standard....nothing less than speedos in public...though that does not leave much left

My usage of being 'holiness minded' was the term I was reared with not meant to be disparaging to anyone but we were called 'holiness' people because of our separation from the world.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I personally think the book title would be considered degrading to any standard believing person. It plainly labels them as a Pharisee.

I am not convinced that the title alone gives this conotation. The title is more referring to the Elitist attitude about standards more than the accual standards. I have never read the book though I want to. I am just going by my first opinion on the title. I have stated over and over again that I am not against personal standards, but trying to legislate a "holy" lifestyle or dress code is not the right way of God convicting someone. IMO.

NO ONE but God can give someone a true conviction. People tend to build a monument out of a movement. Monuments are great to look at, but not fun to live with. Saying that someone has to dress with standards or else suffer the fire of hell is just not right. That is like someone trying to legislate what is a "real" move of God. No one can do that but God alone! We can call a revival and no one is revived the it is just church. But God when He opens the flood gates we can be having church and revival breaks out!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well that's hearsay. If you heard him first hand that's different.

True but his uncle told me this? I hope I was told correctly. One of his family members goes to Christ Church.