Tattoos

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Lacey

Tattoos?

They look very unnatural and out of place on a human body IMO.

Spraying your hair is an unnatural look. God wants it to just hang there.

[Arphaxad]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Spraying your hair is an unnatural look. God wants it to just hang there.

and teeth whiteners, keep 'em naturally stained.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

and teeth whiteners, keep 'em naturally stained.

Well heck....brushing your teeth. Cologne. Aspirin. Deodorant. Laxatives (if you're stopped up, it's the way God wanted it). Glasses. Heck, clothes. Let's just be natural!!!

[Arphaxad]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Well heck....brushing your teeth. Cologne. Aspirin. Deodorant. Laxatives (if you're stopped up, it's the way God wanted it). Glasses. Heck, clothes. Let's just be natural!!!

and eat sushi only

[A.W. Bowman]

An interesting subject - but one that most Conservative, Holy Standards preachers will most likely stay far away from on an open forum, such as this one.

From behind a pulpit, they can say most anything they want to without fear of being 'called down' for doing violence to the the word of God. For example, The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

However, I will not judge a man who does not have a beard to be unworthy of a God called and ordained ministry.
My favorite law reference remains 1Tim 1:7.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

An interesting subject - but one that most Conservative, Holy Standards preachers will most likely stay far away from on an open forum, such as this one.

From behind a pulpit, they can say most anything they want to without fear of being 'called down' for doing violence to the the word of God. For example, The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

However, I will not judge a man who does not have a beard to be unworthy of a God called and ordained ministry.
My favorite law reference remains 1Tim 1:7.

As usual, you say it very, very well. Thanks for your words of wisdom!

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by notofworks

As usual, you say it very, very well. Thanks for your words of wisdom!

Thank you for the very kind words. Truly.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

The source text for the subject of tattoo's is Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor imprint any marks upon you: I am the LORD. [JPS] And, this has been preached on a great many times.

But, what if someone said, "We need to take a good hard look at this issue in the context of the Word of God."? Well, what one mostly hears is a lot of sputtering, and 'I am the pastor, and I get to set the standards."

The doctrinal problem is that this verse is embedded in a long list of ordinances that the children of Israel were to follow - to the letter. Therefore, if one is to preach against tattoos for any reason other than the one given, we must also include the preaching in support of the other ordinances too, such as the one in the preceding verse: Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [JPS], which carries with it the implicit instruction for every man to grow their 'full' God given beards - and not to cut the hair on their hair too short!

Beards (facial hair) is not a sin - rather, according to Lev 19:27, it is a sin not to have a full beard.

And Leviticus 19:29 says "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore ; lest the land fall to whoredom , and the land become full of wickedness. "

So I guess its okay to pimp out our daughters? If we throw out Lev 19:28 because the verse that PRECEEDS it, then lets also ignore the verse which FOLLOWS it, obviously neither matter. Why their even in the Old Testament no one knows, probably because God didn't have to buy Lexmark ink every time he turned around and could waste words.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

And Leviticus 19:29 says "Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore ; lest the land fall to whoredom , and the land become full of wickedness. "

So I guess its okay to pimp out our daughters? If we throw out Lev 19:28 because the verse that PRECEEDS it, then lets also ignore the verse which FOLLOWS it, obviously neither matter. Why their even in the Old Testament no one knows, probably because God didn't have to buy Lexmark ink every time he turned around and could waste words.

Jason, you're abandoning every hermeneutical principle that's made you so good at understanding scripture at such a young age.

No one is saying here that since we don't necessarily obey a verse in Leviticus that we automatically don't obey any of them! Your reasoning here is without foundation. In fact, it's these very interpretational principles that YOU use to discredit the tithing institution of the Old Testament...which I agree with.

Here we have an Old Testament guideline that is stuck in the middle of numerous antiquated rules. Many of them are NOT reinforced in any way in the New Testament such as verse 27 which prohibits trimming he beard. OBVIOUSLY, there is New Testament principle that backs up verse 29, and honestly Jason, I'm wasting time covering it in this post.....because you know better. The same hermeneutical principles that have helped you understand that tithing is no longer an absolute giving guideline, are the same principles that no longer require us to follow Old Testament tattoooing rules.

Come on, Jason...you're backed into a corner here. It's ok to say, "Uncle" and tell me you support my desire to get a tattoo!

[A.W. Bowman]

It seems that perhaps my initial post was not understood as I had intended.

The lesson here is that God has given no man the right, privilege or authority to add to or diminish from the Law of God (Deuteronomy 12:32, Torah. Instructions in Righteousness). The only person who was authorized to modify these instructions was their author, Jesus Christ. And, He did not remove one jot or title from those instructions (or He lied). Rather, what He did in Matthew 5,6, & 7 was to open up the scriptures to a deeper meaning, understanding and application of those instructions.

No, we are not free to make a buffet out of God's word, to pick and choose what we will adhere to and what we will discard, according to our own knowledge, understanding or desires. Doing violence to the word of God will earn us nothing but God's condemnation, regardless of our apparent motivation or good intentions! Teachers of the word of God will be judged by a more strict measurement, because you have a great influence over the lives of others. Therefore, when you twist the word to say what you want it to mean, don't be surprised when the congregation goes into rebellion, members leave, the church splits, or the members fall pray to a perpetual immaturity and continued dependent on you and your guidance, rather than on the word and the Spirit.You have succeeded in making them followers of you. rather than to transform into true disciples of Jesus, the true Master that you were suppose to lead them to. (Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 5:1) Teach men to imitate your faith, your integrity and your good works as you follow Christ, but don't be guilty of standing in their way of establishing their own personal, intimate relationship with Him. Neither the saint nor Christ requires your approval for the form that their fellowship takes! That is like attempting to dictate the kind/type of relationship your daughter is to have with her husband - after she is married. And, sometimes we wonder why so many marriages fail? Unfulfilled expectations is the prime reason.

News flash - Not even Jesus of Nazareth, the son of God, observed (obeyed, performed) all of the 'Law of God' (aka, the Law of Mosses) that He said He fulfilled in its entirety! But, to understand that precept, one must be able to view the entire Bible from a Hebraic perspective, rather than just from a Western point of view. For those who can move between these two worldviews, congratulations, now go teach. For those who have difficulty with this concept, know that it is not an easy task - go study a little more.