Does no one accept responsibility any more?

Originally Posted by stmatthew

And this is the disagreement.

Let me be plain. If someone is too stupid to do their homework before making a major purchase like a home, they have no one to blame but themselves for getting into a loan by presuming upon the future. I am not without compassion for someone losing their home, but the victim mentality IS an issue with me.

Did you know there’s such a disdain for the victim mentality that real victims are derided in today’s culture? I know folks who took real estate in school and have a hard time understanding the ins and outs of some of these contracts. I don’t expect everyone to understand the degree of risk they are opening themselves up to. No one used to…that’s why these lending/investment schemes used to be heavily regulated.

*DID they work a second job to attempt to save the home?

A second job for another 15-30 years while rates adjust even worse as time goes by isn’t feasible. People are more than work horses earning a living in this social Darwinist society. These are fathers and mothers. Most are already both working…one of them taking on a second job will eliminate a father or a mother from the family equation to earn the almighty dollar. If they didn’t qualify for a fixed rate…the system should have never set them up with a variable rate to begin with. The only reason these companies did this is because they deregulated the industry and they were allowed to sell these mortgages to overseas investors. I imagine you’d have no issue with everyone working on a global corporate plantation for their living? That’s where we’re headed bro. It will be a privatized communism where the corporation owns all…including the government.

*DID they continue to pay for things such as Cell phones, Cable tv, and internet instead of taking the money for these NON-ESSENTIALS and applying it to the loan?

I can see ditching the cell phones and cable….but the savings wouldn’t be significant enough to help most of them.

*DID they continue to smoke, drink, or go out to eat, instead of taking care of their responsibilities?

While I agree they should ditch these things again the savings wouldn’t be significant enough to make a difference.

* DID they work to improve their credit during the time they had the home by paying their payments ON TIME every month?

We agree that this is reasonable.

*And DID they seek out other means to get the mortgage changed to a fixed rate, or at least contact their current mortgage company and ask for options?

For most the credit crunch crushed their being able to qualify. The lender made it sound like refinancing would be a synch…no one told them the bottom could fall out of the market and they’d be stuck.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rico

Matt, let's say that you are a married man in your late 20s early 30s with 2 children. You've got a decent job, nice car, good credit rating. You want to buy a house but can't seem to be able to save up the 20% it takes for the down payment for whatever reason. You start seeing signs on house that say "Buy me with no money down." You look into it and discover that there are companies willing to loan 100% of a home's value using two loans. 80% goes thru an adjustable rate mortgage, and the remaining 20% is thru a home equity loan. The payment on both of these loans is equal to or just a little bit more than you have been paying for rent. The person selling you on this loan explains that the big loan has an adjustable rate that will go up in, say, 5 years. The smaller loan is an interest only loan for the first 10 years then it amoritizes for the remaining 10 years. You are a little nervous, partly because it all sounds too good to be true and you are a little worried about making that higher payment when the rate goes up on the big loan. You express your concern to the person selling you this loan. He explains that these types of loans are really not designed for someone to keep, but more to make it possible for people to become homeowners. He explains that, by the time you reach the point where the payment would go up that you'd have enough of a paying history to qualify for a standard fixed rate mortgage. He also explains that the value of your property will have gone up by then, which will also make it possible to refinance the whole package.

You do some research on property values in the area and find out that they have, in fact, been going up steadily over the last 20-30 years. You check into the type of loan you are thinking about getting and find out that many people have already done exactly what this loan officer has said you could do. So, wanting to be a good father that provides a good home for your family, you go for it. Next thing you know you are a proud new homeowner and life is better than it's ever been. You're thanking God for making it possible for you buy your first house. No more renting for you.

Five years go by and it's time for your rate to go up. In the last year or so there has been some trouble in the stock market. Globally, money gets tight. Oil prices are skyrocketing. Banks are having trouble borrowing money. Credit has gotten tougher to get. You look into refinancing this ARM and HELOC into one fixed rate mortgage. You find out that, because of what has been going on in the stock market banks have made it extremely difficult for people to get fixed rate mortgages. Because of what's been going on, hundreds of thousands of home owners all across America have not been able to refinance these loans, lost their homes, and the real estate market is suffering badly because of it. Then you find out that your home's value has dropped because of everything that's been going on. You find out that you're stuck with a loan payment that is about to double or even triple, because no one wants to loan you the money to refinance.

It's not that you don't pay your bills. It's not that you're a bad person. It's that financial conditions throughout the country have deteriorated to the point that, what was supposed to be a God-send for people like you, has turned out to be a huge nightmare. When it's all said and done, you've lost the home you thought you were going to live in for the rest of your life, your credit rating is shot because you couldn't afford the triple payments, your family is embarassed about having to go back to renting, and you are left asking yourself why all this had to happen.

Why did it happen? Because the banking industry never should have started offering these types of loans in the first place. They thought the good times of the 90s were going to last forever. They figured they could make a bunch of money off what were essentially interest only loans. They didn't plan on the stock market going south. They didn't plan on having issues with brokerage houses going bankrupt. They rolled the dice with the housing market and lost, plain and simple.

I hear what you guys are saying about people being responsible for the actions. If it's true for them then it's true for the banks and mortgage brokers that dreamed up all these loans that were going to make it possible for so many to live the American dream of home ownership. They did not present these loans to consumers as risky. For that they are to blame.

Rico,

Because I would have done enough due diligence to know that ANY Adjustable rate can, and likely WILL, go up over time, I would turn this loan down. IF as you said, I have good credit and a good job, I can get a good home and qualify easily at 100% for a fixed FHA loan.

BUT even if I had taken it, I have had 5 years, knowing that it would go up, to get it changed, and have not taken the responsibility to do so.

See the real issue here is that some of you don't think that people should be held responsible to do their homework before they get into a debt. It all comes down to educating ones self prior to signing on the dotted line.

Again, I understand there were some shady deals done, and those should be looked into closely and action taken. But they are the exception, and not the norm.

Originally Posted by cneasttx

What a great Mom Grasshopper.

According to MOW and most conservatives I know she's just another looser who just won't take responsibility. To me...she's a hero. And while most hate welfare...I thank God for the ability we had to glean until I could leave home and stand on my own two feet.

Does anyone notice how "corporation" and "business" and "banks" are always the good guys and average individuals that don't understand the details the industries are just viewed as irresponsibile shmucks that should have known better?

Man...I want to be a corporate CEO or business man...it sure would be great to be above reproach or criticism. I could call anyone who questioned my schemes a selfish socialist and get all the religious people singing my praises.

[DividedThigh]

you are very sad grass, the bitterness must be overwhelming, i will pray for you, dt

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Rico,

Because I would have done enough due diligence to know that ANY Adjustable rate can, and likely WILL, go up over time, I would turn this loan down. IF as you said, I have good credit and a good job, I can get a good home and qualify easily at 100% for a fixed FHA loan.

BUT even if I had taken it, I have had 5 years, knowing that it would go up, to get it changed, and have not taken the responsibility to do so.

See the real issue here is that some of you don't think that people should be held responsible to do their homework before they get into a debt. It all comes down to educating ones self prior to signing on the dotted line.

Again, I understand there were some shady deals done, and those should be looked into closely and action taken. But they are the exception, and not the norm.

Again, I agree that people need to take some of the responsibility for this housing crisis we are in. However, you can not place the blame solely on the consumer. These loans were not presented to potential homebuyers as being risky. Have you ever tried reading one of these loan documents? I have, because I worked for a company that provided customer service for a bank's HELOC department, and they are extremely confusing, Matt.

There is a certain amount of trust involved with these types of transactions. It's kind of like when someone buys insurance from me. They put their trust in me as a professional. My job is to decipher the policy language and explain to them what the insurance company will pay for and what it won't pay for. The people who were selling these loans to consumers did not adequately present the risk involved to consumers. They saw these loans as an easy way to make money, pushed them on people without really explaining how they worked, made a bunch of money, and now consumers are left holding the bag.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Does anyone notice how "corporation" and "business" and "banks" are always the good guys and average individuals that don't understand the details the industries are just viewed as irresponsibile shmucks that should have known better?

Man...I want to be a corporate CEO or business man...it sure would be great to be above reproach or criticism. I could call anyone who questioned my schemes a selfish socialist and get all the religious people singing my praises.

What's the difference you want the government to clean up your mess and call corp. and conservatives fascists. Who do you think pays the taxes in this country? Those evil corp. pay taxes and they actually pay them twice. Once on the corp. profit and then when they pay the employees they pay taxes too.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Does anyone notice how "corporation" and "business" and "banks" are always the good guys and average individuals that don't understand the details the industries are just viewed as irresponsibile shmucks that should have known better?

Man...I want to be a corporate CEO or business man...it sure would be great to be above reproach or criticism. I could call anyone who questioned my schemes a selfish socialist and get all the religious people singing my praises.

Surely, you jest. Our president was just asked to leave because sales numbers weren't were they wanted them to be.

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

you are very sad grass, the bitterness must be overwhelming, i will pray for you, dt

Don't bother. I already know what you utra-right wing types think of me and others who politically disagree with you. Your prayers arent' welcome here. I know too many peope hurting while people "pray" for them. You're faith and your prayers are a joke if you don't stand for a society that cares for it's own. If you stand to allow business to get breaks for moving jobs we need to Mexico or China. If you don't care that premiums are too high to insure our kids. If you don't care that a young couple got taken in a lending scheme that shouldn't have been legal to begin with.

America is nothing but a huge social Darwinist state where most only care for themselves. Nobody cares for their neighbors anymore. I know a person who has cancer and might face a layoff and loose her insurance. She's not going to be able to get insurance that she can afford due to her "pre-existing" illness. If they lay her off....they essentially sign her death warrant.

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Surely, you jest. Our president was just asked to leave because sales numbers weren't were they wanted them to be.

Wow. Who's he going to go work for as their next President of sales?