We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

StMark had an excellent point. While Scripture doesn't demand that we set a day aside to commemorate Christ's birth... it doesn't condemn the idea either. It's a matter of Christian liberty.

It also dosen't condem prayer beads (rosary) in worship.

It doesn't condem kneeling and genuflecting (making the sign of the cross)

It doesn't condem the painting of Icons.

It doesn't condem confesional boths.

It doesn't condem lighting candles for prayers.

Yet, it does say Not to incorporate the worship of the heathens into the worship of the almighty God. I really enjoy these discussions on the Catholic Mass with Pentecostals. It always shows me that no matter what, if a person wants to do something they will make arguments and fight like wolves to protect their traditions. Even when they are going down in flames they will use self justification and conjecture to up hold their sacred cow. They turn around and blast conservatives for standards of dress, but when their own practices are attacked they make heroic attempts to defend them.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[rgcraig]

Too late - wait to next year!

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Too late - wait to next year!

There's still Epiphany!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

As long as we esteem as a day unto the Lord, that was St. Paul's requirement and we must be careful to not offend our weaker brothers and sisters.

You know when individuals quote the above scripture they never practice what they claim they are doing.

The weak Brothers and Sisters are not individuals who are presenting factual truth to individuals who hide their head in the sand concerning those presented facts.

The new converts come and already know that the practice is Roman Catholic and was borrowed from long gone Pagan religions. These new converts come looking for Apostolic Truths and find those who are in the Apostolic Faith making excuses for why THEY can celebrate the Catholic holiday. If they new convert has an issue or asks too many questions, then the new convert is told that he or she are weak. That is a stench in God's nostrils. The below is a post I made earlier in this discussion.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The ones who were weak were new converts. The strong ones were those who set the example even though they knew the idol was nothing.

So do you partake of the table of devils?

1Co 10:19-24

"What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but ALL THINGS EDIFY NOT. Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth."

Which means that Paul was telling the Corinthians that the Gentiles meat was offered to demons, therefore to share the Passover cup with Paganism was wrong. Even though the meat was meat, they were to seek their Brother's well being and not their own satisfaction. They were to be the mature ones to the weak ones. Doing without the pagan meat.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That is not what the scripture means. The weaker Brother was a new convert, and one from paganism. There are people in the world and in other religions and sects who know the truth about the Catholic holy day. Now, they see you who claim to be in the "truth" celebrating the xmas. They are offended. To those like me and Brother Alex who don't celebrate the Roman Catholic feast day, we could care less what you do with your time. We speak are mind, you make excuses. End of story. Yet the new convert, and those who are in the world who know and understand the truth about the xmas, are the ones who lose out, because of your want for liberty to do as you very well please. Your position is that they just need to get over it.
Paul's position is that if what he was eating (meat offered to idols) offended a Brother, he would eat no meat that was used in pagan worship. Simple.
I don't care what you do, (I presented my arguments, my part is done) just as long as you don't pawn it off on my family or I.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

There's still Epiphany!

Yes, January 6th all the tree jewelry hangers get to celebrate when three magicians visited Jesus. They celebrate the Catholic Mass, and the only reason why they don't celebrate the Epiphany, is because they weren't raised to accept it. When you go over this entire thread you will find people not even trying to defend a truth, but defend what they were raised to believe was OK. Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and the rest of their ilk, look at Christianity and judge it not by its scriptural context, but by the people who claim to follow the Christian religion. Inconsistency, and weak arguments are hurled back and forth, not to protect Biblical teaching, but some old relic picked up and brushed off by a Roman Pope, and handed down with trinty baptism to a teething Charismatic movement.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

A wooden idol is just wood. A stone idol is just a stone. There isn't anything mystical, mythical, or supernatural about them. It's all just superstition. Notice what God's Law says,

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." - Exodus 20:4

Unless you bow down and worship it, it's a paper weight or decoration. Yep, "I'm a Christian, I decorate my house with your stinking gods." lol I have an old Hawaiian idol statue made of real lava that I keep on my desk at home. Every now and then I've been known to shoot him with a squirt gun. lol

Do you believe in a spirit world?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Exactly.

I don't care what you do with your time, but frankly the world thinks you're ignorant when you don't even understand the history and origins of what you're celebrating. Do they care if you celebrate? Not for a second. Do I care if you celebrate? No. But don't try to tell me that I'm the one wrong about the origins and history. You wouldn't waste your breath telling a PhD in chemistry that H2O isn't water. Don't waste your breath telling me a Christmas tree isn't an idol, doesn't have pagan origins, or anything of the sort.

If you choose to celebrate Christmas, and choose to use the pagan symbolism (or cultural, whatever you'd like to call it) THEN DO SO. I don't care, that is truly between you and God. But claiming it's not what it is just makes you look foolish.

This post is the bullet to the brain. Read it and weep, read it and weep.

Isn't it just wonderful when logic comes to the forefront and makes a statement that shuts all opposings views down.

Thank you very much for this clear and thoughtful post.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yes, January 6th all the tree jewelry hangers get to celebrate when three magicians visited Jesus. They celebrate the Catholic Mass, and the only reason why they don't celebrate the Epiphany, is because they weren't raised to accept it. When you go over this entire thread you will find people not even trying to defend a truth, but defend what they were raised to believe was OK. Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and the rest of their ilk, look at Christianity and judge it not by its scriptural context, but by the people who claim to follow the Christian religion. Inconsistency, and weak arguments are hurled back and forth, not to protect Biblical teaching, but some old relic picked up and brushed off by a Roman Pope, and handed down with trinty baptism to a teething Charismatic movement.

I've just decided to be puzzled. And sad for those who are desperately seeking but won't even look at Jesus because of the inconsistencies and ignorance Christians display regarding pagan sabbats.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Funny thing here, out of all the OT feast/celebration none are celebrated today by most churches but they do celebrate the ones that orginated in pagan worship.

Because to them it's not about seeking truth, but staying within a culture.
Holiness standards of dress are diametrically opposed to the popular culture around us and therefore people want to abandon those standards because they want to blend into the surrounding cultural norms. The same is with the xmas, it is not celebrated because of any degree of sought truth, but because it's part of a popular culture. They will defend it just as strongly as they defend their Christian beliefs. They make arguments pulled from the mouths of Roman Catholic priests and Eastern Orthodox monks. Why? Because to protect and defend a Roman and Eastern church tradition, one must employ the tactics and arguments of popes, cardinals and eastern patriarchs.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I've just decided to be puzzled. And sad for those who are desperately seeking but won't even look at Jesus because of the inconsistencies and ignorance Christians display regarding pagan sabbats.

Amen, it is truly sad. Yet, look at the "weaker brother" argument that has been parroted in this thread. They pull it like a gun, but why? It really sounds more like, "You are weak, and therefore if you are weak, then get over it, weakling." Nice, real nice. I have watched new converts bewildered when snapped at by spiritual gurus who wouldn't answer their questions.

New converts asking all different questions only to be sent off to the pastor's office like some misbehaving child. After a while of the "religious treadmill from hell" they throw up their hands in despair and move on.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com