Former Memphis area pastor preaching a conference

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Tennesee would be one of the most liberal districts in the UPC and always has been. I am friends with many conservative UPC preachers and none of them considered him a conservative. Now compared to folks on this forum an ultra-con but to real conservatives in the org. nope.

If folks in the UPC didn't consider him strong on the core holiness issues he would not have been in demand for camp meetings, conferences, men's retreats and other large gatherings. If you get labeled with the "L" word, you're a pariah, you have spiritual leprosy.

There has been a growing acceptance in mainstream UPC of TVs, movies on VHS and DVDs, other worldly amusements and youth sports since the onset of VCRs in the 80s. He was not a liberal in the UPC even if from TN. He was perceived as rock solid on the sacred cows.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Which Brother Fuller?

David Fuller, former pastor of Atlanta West where Darrell Johns pastors now. I heard DF with my own ears say if you owned a television younger going to hell. Now, he probably owns one.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I agree, Renda. At least LS thought him enough of a con to frequent the assembly in Memphis.

I find this readiness, and almost rush to get back in the saddle, as it were, all very disturbing.

People can argue that it is his business and not ours, and this is very true. But when we place ourselves in the position of authority, setting ourselves up as this or that, we leave ourselves open to this kind of discussion.

The bodies of the wounded have not begun to heal, and he is acting as though nothing happened...shameful.

I better stop before I get bashed for commenting on this topic again...

To me it's a simple an act of survival. Think about it: you have a UPC Bible school degree. Your work history has been church work your whole life since you were a teenager. You were pulling down a healthy six figure income for Lord knows how long and suddenly it's gone, poof, in an instant. You've built your lifestyle around being in the top 5% of Americans. What are you going to do? If he was so foolish and sloppy to take the chances he was taking, do you think he was smart with his money and and made sound investments so he could take an early retirement living off the income generated by that? Who will hire him? Is he marketable in the workplace at age what---55-57? Will he try to manage a McDs or WalMart? Has he ever had an ordinary job ever in his life?

What is the one skill he has? Preaching. There's a market for him and he will find his niche and will continue just like Fuller, Hanby, Swaggert, Bakker, et al. Most of them don't go to selling cars, insurance, investments, real estate or start a business. They find a place somewhere in the church world, any church world, that can pay the bills and put food on the table.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Godzchild

PLEASE tell me TB is not going to be allowed to teach or preach anywhere???? I am all for forgiving and I am NOT the judge of his life but he is NOT in NO way shape or form FIT to teach or preach to a graveyard full of dust and bones! Just my personal opinion....as a former TPC member!

If I know Dan Willis his church is probably very diverse and probably attracts a large number of minorities. And this is a simple statement of fact: African American congregations and Hispanic congregations are far more gracious, merciful, tolerant and accepting of human failure and brokenness than white churches. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my observation. Maybe it has to do with Christ's principle of "he who as been forgiven of much, loves much". Many minorities have struggled to such a degree they have more room for sympathy and compassion and giving a man a second chance than a lot of other folks do.

Maybe to a brand new audience, an audience that knows very little of his life and history, he can be effective, especially if he is transparent and forthcoming and contrite about what he has brought on himself.

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by not4saken

Sis...apology accepted.
Now, let me say sumthin to you, and please don't get offended. When I joined AFF the first time, several years ago- I was a hurt, disappointed, angry and disallussioned saint. Raised in a one-ness Apostolic preacher's home and 5th generation Oneness Pentecostal, I thot I KNEW what living for God the 'right' way should be like. I also thot I knew how saints in the pews should be treated by the ministry. I also thot that I could come on here and rant and spew all kinds of bitterness and bile (no names mentioned in my posts) against the unfair way I and my family had been treated, and folks would coddle me and pat on me, and agree about how unfairly I had been treated. WRONG. Coonskinner, Old paths, Bro. Epley, CC1, Renda, and lots of others on AFF back then, blasted me right back when I wasn't thinking right. I will forever be grateful for these people being in my life at the time. They helped me see things from different perspectives and they helped me heal. I was forever changed by my time here back then. Because of this experience, I can easily spot when posts are written out of anger, or bitterness, or when not a lot of thot was given before posts were typed. Maybe I'm just super sensitive to this type of poster, because I was one at one time.

I can appreciate when folks are hurt, and dealt wrongly with, and they're disallussioned with people. I have been there. I think of you a lot during the day, and pray for your family and all of TB's past saints. I can only hope and pray that there will not be any souls lost because of TB and his selfish lusts.

Maybe we can start again. I hope we understand each other a little better

Love and prayers, Lynne

This is absolutely correct and I am not offended in any way. Truth may hurt sometimes but God sometimes sends us "wake up calls" from people we have never met. I am still hurting that my family was done so dirty...btw...the words "ni**er-lover" often used by "saints and members"......that cut deeper than anything and when the "pastor" looked the other way....well, my family left and never looked back. What TB has done has cut deeper than I thought bc I trusted him as my pastor and leader....but I do know God will sustain and I will not hold others accountable for my short comings or my hurt. UPC still has some very extrodinary pastors and preachers and for that Im so thankful. I am also 5th generation Apostolic and I am so thankful for my Gramma who started the ball rolling and thankful I am still standing strong enough to pass it down to my grandkids! Thank you again Lynne (((BIG HUGS))) P.S. I hope to find some positive people as you have that will come in my life to "help" and "guide" me as well. I am never to old or too good for constructive criticism and godly guidence :-)

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by BonnieFried

Well, again I was told he did not preach but was on the platform. And they must be ashamed if he did preach because it's not in their archives. JA is probably afraid he will be in trouble with UPCI for letting him behind his pulpit if what you say is true. JA probably has his congregation brain washed just like TB did and a bunch of other Penny Cost tolls

I was told TBs UPC license was turned in last week and he's officially gone. I also was told communication has been sent around the org to not use him in ministry or else. Not sure about the second part but 100% on the first part.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Who assigned the religious Gestapo to track TB's every move?

Oh please..."religious Gestapo" indeed!

The flyer is 'out there' for anyone to see...

.

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by H Gang

If I know Dan Willis his church is probably very diverse and probably attracts a large number of minorities. And this is a simple statement of fact: African American congregations and Hispanic congregations are far more gracious, merciful, tolerant and accepting of human failure and brokenness than white churches. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my observation. Maybe it has to do with Christ's principle of "he who as been forgiven of much, loves much". Many minorities have struggled to such a degree they have more room for sympathy and compassion and giving a man a second chance than a lot of other folks do.

Maybe to a brand new audience, an audience that knows very little of his life and history, he can be effective, especially if he is transparent and forthcoming and contrite about what he has brought on himself.

Some of my family are African American and other minorities, and we are NOT in no way tolerant of such and as a result , some of my family have turned sort of bitter about this. So NOT all minorites feel that way. Not any of my family, friends or friends of friends....etc...or the church where my family belong to of which is 98% minority feel this way~ I hope this post will not be the start to some negitivity but no offense taken on my part. Dont know who made this ASSUMPTION to be as a "FACT"...... truly not so!

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Godzchild

Some of my family are African American and other minorities, and we are NOT in no way tolerant of such and as a result , some of my family have turned sort of bitter about this. So NOT all minorites feel that way. I hope this post will not be the start to some negitivity but no offense taken on my part. Dont know who made this ASSUMPTION to be as a "FACT"...... truly not so!

I don't mean tolerant of sin I'm saying being easy to forgive---as a general observation, that's why I said "there are exceptions".

And I believe everyone deserves a second chance. How that works out, I don't think there is concrete answer to that.

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by H Gang

I don't mean tolerant of sin I'm saying being easy to forgive---as a general observation, that's why I said "there are exceptions".

And I believe everyone deserves a second chance. How that works out, I don't think there is concrete answer to that.

absolutley, but I was not talking about tolerance of sin either.....I am speaking of forgiveness as well. My church/pastor thinks this is so when a "layman" falls, but NOT a preacher. No exceptions to the rule as he has said! Too many souls are at stake , so .... once fallen, find a place to sit (as he has said about TB) ~and you r right...there is really no concrete answer for that.....but in my personal opinion...TB and all others who have "fallen", need to be forgiven as God instructs us to do, and let God do the rest...then take a seat on the pew with the rest of the saints.