No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Of course. You do understand Im talking about a spiritual body as opposed to a flesh one?

The omnipresent spirit simply reduced it down to the size of a seed and overshadowing Mary placed it in her womb.

The BODY became a seed????????????? That is interesting.

[Michael The Disciple]

The literal translation of John 1:1 is helpful in showing the error that Logos was just a plan or an idea.

Here it is.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word. John 1:1

Was God just a thought? An idea?

Here is the same verse from the ancient Aramaic, the oldest Semetic text.

IN the beginning was the Word,* and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.

The Aramaic and the Greek agree.

Now lets turn our attention to the ORIGINAL ENGLISH BIBLE. William Tyndale was the first to translate the Greek texts into the English language long before the KJV.

In the beginning was that{the} word, and that{the} word was with god: and god was that word.

There you have it. The Greek, Aramaic, and original English all agree that GOD HIMSELF was the LOGOS.

It was not just a though he had. It was HIM in visible form.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The literal translation of John 1:1 is helpful in showing the error that Logos was just a plan or an idea.

Here it is.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word. John 1:1

Was God just a thought? An idea?

Here is the same verse from the ancient Aramaic, the oldest Semetic text.

IN the beginning was the Word,* and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.

The Aramaic and the Greek agree.

Now lets turn our attention to the ORIGINAL ENGLISH BIBLE. William Tyndale was the first to translate the Greek texts into the English language long before the KJV.

In the beginning was that{the} word, and that{the} word was with god: and god was that word.

There you have it. The Greek, Aramaic, and original English all agree that GOD HIMSELF was the LOGOS.

It was not just a though he had. It was HIM in visible form.

How are you reading a body into that text???????????????????

Certainly God himself became flesh that is not the problem. But where did this body become a seed that is the question.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

How are you reading a body into that text???????????????????

Certainly God himself became flesh that is not the problem. But where did this body become a seed that is the question.

6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Phil. 2:6

The form of God was made in the likeness of men.

14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The WORD/FORM was made flesh. IT was what went in Marys womb. Thats how it was MADE FLESH.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

6: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Phil. 2:6

The form of God was made in the likeness of men.

14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The WORD/FORM was made flesh. IT was what went in Marys womb. Thats how it was MADE FLESH.

NOTHING in that text REMOTELY says the body became a seed.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NOTHING in that text REMOTELY says the body became a seed.

I will try this once. The WORD/EXPRESS IMAGE was a form that Elohim used to manifest himself in the Old Testament times.

It was that form that was made flesh. The visible image went from being spirit to being flesh.

If the Word was made flesh it had to get into Marys womb for that to happen. The Word was reduced (emptied) to nothing but what could get in her womb.

That is the seed Im talking about. I dont believe Mary was impregnated by human sperm but rather by the Spirit of Elohim.

How would your belief that the Word was a plan differ from this? How would he get a plan into Marys womb any different than by placing the reality of it there?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I will try this once. The WORD/EXPRESS IMAGE was a form that Elohim used to manifest himself in the Old Testament times.

It was that form that was made flesh. The visible image went from being spirit to being flesh.

If the Word was made flesh it had to get into Marys womb for that to happen. The Word was reduced (emptied) to nothing but what could get in her womb.

That is the seed Im talking about. I dont believe Mary was impregnated by human sperm but rather by the Spirit of Elohim.

How would your belief that the Word was a plan differ from this? How would he get a plan into Marys womb any different than by placing the reality of it there?

Nothing inthis passage remotely teaches 'the visible image' went from being spirit to flesh. God planted the seed which was His Word but nothing in this says anything about a body being reduced to a seed. But you are trying.

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The literal translation of John 1:1 is helpful in showing the error that Logos was just a plan or an idea.

Here it is.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word. John 1:1

Was God just a thought? An idea?

Here is the same verse from the ancient Aramaic, the oldest Semetic text.

IN the beginning was the Word,* and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.

The Aramaic and the Greek agree.

Now lets turn our attention to the ORIGINAL ENGLISH BIBLE. William Tyndale was the first to translate the Greek texts into the English language long before the KJV.

In the beginning was that{the} word, and that{the} word was with god: and god was that word.

There you have it. The Greek, Aramaic, and original English all agree that GOD HIMSELF was the LOGOS.

It was not just a though he had. It was HIM in visible form.

That's Hawaiian, not Aramaic.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

That's Hawaiian, not Aramaic.

It is the English translation of the Aramaic Peshitta.

You can see it for yourself here. Etheridge always uses Aloha as the transliteration of Eloah from the Hebrew.

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/Arama.../etheridge.htm

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

That's Hawaiian, not Aramaic.

LOL! I too was looking for the dancing hula girls in grass skirts!