Have you ever been mad at God?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I was mad at God for a long time (seething rage might be a more accurate description). Or at least I thought I was. The truth is that I wasn't really mad at God, I was angry that a construct that I was taught was God's character proved faulty. Eventually I realized that I was angry at God, because other humans taught me things about God that wasn't true.

Even though I knew that it wasn't God's fault, I had a hard time, because I felt that God could have prevented them from giving me an inaccurate view of Him. Eventually I stopped whining about the past, and started asking him to help me clean up the mess.

"Is God to Blame" by Gregory A. Boyd, really helped me a lot.

Doh! I still haven't reordered that book. Will now. Stand by ... ... ... Done! This time, the receipt looks right. (For those of you wondering, I tried to order this once before, and accidentally got the wrong book. My fault or theirs, not sure. Probably mine, though.)

BTW, despite how my posts may sound, I don't actually blame God for anything. I just don't hold him Him to any of the "promises" that are attributed to Him. I don't believe He would ever promise something He had no intention of (always) doing, like John 16:23 or James 5:15. I don't think He wants us to ask Him to do things for us. He wants us to make our own way, live at peace with each other, help and love each other, and use common sense. Use the brains He gave us. That's all.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

I have been very mad at God. I asked him for example, why my husband and I spent our whole adult lives working for something that we would leave. Our goal was simply to have a self-supporting church and spend our days working there and to raise our kids well. Well, come to find out that we taught our kids and other people things that we regret (standards and legalism) and left the UPC and everything we had worked for all those years. Some people from the church also sued us and made our lives miserable for a long time. What was the point behind all of this? I still don't know. I was very angry at God when we first left. Now less so, but I still don't know why we spent all that time and effort only to leave it behind. Yes, I wanted to leave. I didn't believe it anymore. But why did I believe so strongly when God knew all along it wasn't so? I may never have the answer to these questions and more and now I am trying to learn how to function in a world I don't understand very well. Sometimes it is quite taxing since my framework has changed.

ILG,
Nothing you have done for God will ever be forgotten. I think sometimes as ministry people we get too territorial and our expectations are more about us than about the kindgom. I am not saying it was this way for you, but I know in times past it was that way for me.

After UPCI, I spent 7+ years angry with God over that. When my ex and I discussed turning in our card and taking a group of people on who had split from the mother church - I did not understand the repercussions! The loss of the social system I had all my life, the alienation of peers, co-workers, and acquaintances. One day we were one of the most successful of our JCM family and the next we were forgotten and in the sea of non-existence.

My whole world changed and I was so angry with UPCI, the system, the people, and most of all God. I did get healing from this in 2004. I realized that the UPCI is made of of individuals just like I used to be. I was arrogant and judgmental and did my share of dissing those who strayed from the mother ship. It wasn't God's fault...it was our decision and although it seemed like the right thing to do...the loss was enormous.

ILG...I have felt your pain. Just know...God is a big God and he understands what you are going through and He has a way of making it all right.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Doh! I still haven't reordered that book. Will now. Stand by ... ... ... Done! This time, the receipt looks right. (For those of you wondering, I tried to order this once before, and accidentally got the wrong book. My fault or theirs, not sure. Probably mine, though.)

BTW, despite how my posts may sound, I don't actually blame God for anything. I just don't hold him Him to any of the "promises" that are attributed to Him. I don't believe He would ever promise something He had no intention of (always) doing, like John 16:23 or James 5:15. I don't think He wants us to ask Him to do things for us. He wants us to make our own way, live at peace with each other, help and love each other, and use common sense. Use the brains He gave us. That's all.

Sounds like Deterministic Humanism to me. J/K. I don't know sometimes...there are times I think he expects me to do something and I don't know what it is He wants me to do, and then...there I times I expect Him to do something, and he just waits... *sigh*

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sounds like Deterministic Humanism to me. J/K. I don't know sometimes...there are times I think he expects me to do something and I don't know what it is He wants me to do, and then...there I times I expect Him to do something, and he just waits... *sigh*

Frustrating, isn't it? Well, I am finding peace in my new beliefs, that I never had in the unpredictable and contradictory world of Pentecost! My father-in-law passed away recently, and his last few years were spent in the belief that some of his grandchildren (my "backslidden" sons, among perhaps others) were destined for hell. He pleaded with them, in tears, to recommit to Jesus. Where is the peace and joy in that kind of life? Well, I suppose my kids should have made him happy and started believing again. After all, belief is mandatory, isn't it? No, seriously. It is a requirement to believe what you are told to believe. Or else. Just seems really weird, now, when I think about it.

[Timmy]

Oh, by the way, I'd have voted #1 if the vote were open. I've been mad at God in the past. Didn't understand why things didn't work the way they were supposed to. Raise up a child in the way he should go, etc. (Mine departed.) The fruit of the Spirit is joy. For me, the fruit was depression.

Where was the joy? Where was the peace? Yeah, I was mad, not only at God but at myself. Actually asked God to kill me, more than once. I thought I was a failure. If I was a good Christian, if I could just "get it right", I shouldn't be having these thoughts, these doubts. These failings.

But I'm fine, now. See? That's me, down there in my sig!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Oh, by the way, I'd have voted #1 if the vote were open. I've been mad at God in the past. Didn't understand why things didn't work the way they were supposed to. Raise up a child in the way he should go, etc. (Mine departed.) The fruit of the Spirit is joy. For me, the fruit was depression.

Where was the joy? Where was the peace? Yeah, I was mad, not only at God but at myself. Actually asked God to kill me, more than once. I thought I was a failure. If I was a good Christian, if I could just "get it right", I shouldn't be having these thoughts, these doubts. These failings.

But I'm fine, now. See? That's me, down there in my sig!

Timmy,

But are you truly free? Do we ever really not have doubts? Do we really believe that God is "an on time God". Is it wrong to question that?

Did any of us really..."train up our children in the way they should go?" or was it the way we were taught to go?

I have not asked God to kill me - even though I have thought at times that death would be better than this...but I know, what I know, what I know. God spared my life in 1991 and He has a purpose. I don't see it, don't truly understand it, but would in no wise want to die before He accomplishes what He set out to accomplish in me.

Just venting...
Rhoni

[ILG]

Nothing you have done for God will ever be forgotten. I think sometimes as ministry people we get too territorial and our expectations are more about us than about the kindgom. I am not saying it was this way for you, but I know in times past it was that way for me.

Thanks Ronnie. I guess while I was doing all the work etc., I really believed that God and I were on the same page and in it together with the same goals in mind. I think the tough part was realizing that that wasn't entirely true. I think the pain and disappointment may have been easier to deal with had I not really and truly believed I was doing God's will and also that I felt His Spirit was leading me to do the things I did. I think I was led by the Spirit only in the context of what I felt I had to believe....in other words...God was leading me, but only within the narrow framewlrk that I let him.

After UPCI, I spent 7+ years angry with God over that. When my ex and I discussed turning in our card and taking a group of people on who had split from the mother church -[I][B] I did not understand the repercussions! The loss of the social system I had all my life, the alienation of peers, co-workers, and acquaintances. One day we were one of the most successful of our JCM family and the next we were forgotten and in the sea of non-existence.

I didn't entirely understand the repercussions of leaving, but feel that I would do it over again regardless. I couldn't stay and perpetrate the system that hurt me so much. I felt I would have been an utter hypocrite to do so. Living that way when you believe it is one thing....supporting what you don't believe in is another. The social system, I lost some of that. It was a little worse than I thought it would be, but we were basically isolated for years anyway and we have no family in the church, so that part wasn't real hard, although harder than I thought it would be. I think the hardest part is feeling like we've been duped and now, trying to figure out where to draw the lines on things that were so clear before. I find this hardest socially, as the system was a social prop to us, even though we were mostly isolated. There was a framework that I didn't realize was there that allowed me to not rub shoulders with others. Now, I am faced with rubbing shoulders and I don't know how to do that very well.

M

y whole world changed and I was so angry with UPCI, the system, the people, and most of all God. I did get healing from this in 2004. I realized that the UPCI is made of of individuals just like I used to be. I was arrogant and judgmental and did my share of dissing those who strayed from the mother ship. It wasn't God's fault...it was our decision and although it seemed like the right thing to do...the loss was enormous.

I am just healing slowly every day. Sometimes I feel great and am so glad to be out and have a new lease on life. And sometimes I am angry for what I have lost. I'm sure God will help me sort it all out in the end. I feel God's support even while I am angry at Him for the losses and the deception that I sometimes blame Him for allowing in my life.

ILG...I have felt your pain. Just know...God is a big God and he understands what you are going through and He has a way of making it all right.

Thanks.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Reminds me of a situation with my son last year. When my boys were little, I tried to get them into golf. I took them to the range, the course, sent them to golf clinics, etc. and just NO interest.

So, finally I gave up.

Well, last year, my oldest son decided he wanted to golf, so he started going with his buddy. Well, his buddy had been playing for much longer, and thoroughly whipped him every time.

So, he calls me and says a little testily, "I wish you would have gotten us into golf when I was little!"

I said, "I TRIED TO! YOU GUYS WEREN'T INTERESTED!"


He replied, "Well, I wish you would have tried harder!"

I think that's how God may feel sometimes. He tries to guide us, we ignore it, and then when things don't work out, we get mad at Him!

Not saying that's what has happened with you, Rhoni, but I know it sure has happened with me several times!

The good news is that my son now plays golf, got some lessons, and is doing just fine. And, so it is with us - it's never too late to be what we were destined to be, even though we may think we've wasted time!

Thats good, MP...both from a parental viewpoint and from a child of God's viewpoint. Thanks for sharing.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks Ronnie. I guess while I was doing all the work etc., I really believed that God and I were on the same page and in it together with the same goals in mind. I think the tough part was realizing that that wasn't entirely true. I think the pain and disappointment may have been easier to deal with had I not really and truly believed I was doing God's will and also that I felt His Spirit was leading me to do the things I did. I think I was led by the Spirit only in the context of what I felt I had to believe....in other words...God was leading me, but only within the narrow framewlrk that I let him.

I didn't entirely understand the repercussions of leaving, but feel that I would do it over again regardless. I couldn't stay and perpetrate the system that hurt me so much. I felt I would have been an utter hypocrite to do so. Living that way when you believe it is one thing....supporting what you don't believe in is another. The social system, I lost some of that. It was a little worse than I thought it would be, but we were basically isolated for years anyway and we have no family in the church, so that part wasn't real hard, although harder than I thought it would be. I think the hardest part is feeling like we've been duped and now, trying to figure out where to draw the lines on things that were so clear before. I find this hardest socially, as the system was a social prop to us, even though we were mostly isolated. There was a framework that I didn't realize was there that allowed me to not rub shoulders with others. Now, I am faced with rubbing shoulders and I don't know how to do that very well.

M

I am just healing slowly every day. Sometimes I feel great and am so glad to be out and have a new lease on life. And sometimes I am angry for what I have lost. I'm sure God will help me sort it all out in the end. I feel God's support even while I am angry at Him for the losses and the deception that I sometimes blame Him for allowing in my life.

Thanks.

ILG,

No thanks are necessary...you are not alone, we are not alone. There are so many who are feeling/have felt the same way as us. We have been made strong to be able to stand in this time and this place for a reason. Be encouraged...He who hath begun a good work in you, will complete it.

Together with you in His grip,
Rhoni

[ILG]

He said he had some saints in his church that told him how much they loved and appreciated me. He just wanted me to know that.

Yeah, those things help. Most of all, I want my children to be able to overcome the obstacles that have been placed before them because of our mistakes.

M, The feeling you are having are so true...but there will come a time that you think you need to go back to reclaim all that...but there is no going back. They have not changed, but indeed you have. You would betray yourself, and even your relationship to God to think that you can go back and participate in that mind think that God has brought you out of. What God is trying to tell us is: We don't need to be propped up by an organization, fair-weather friends, and even family. God wants to be our one and only PROP. He says, trust me...and see what I will do.

I really don't think I am ever going to want to reclaim anything within the UPC. Sometimes, when I see UPC people, I become wistful about the fantasy that I had and lost, but I view it as a fantasy. I might want to reclaim some things I had in my life previously. In fact, reclaiming the respect I had because of the position would be nice. But I don't want a position like that just for the respect because with the respect comes a lot of responsibility that I don't know that I ever want again.

Healing is a process. We heal from the inside out. Yes, even when we are angry with God...He knows we love Him and need Him and He knows that we will be ashamed of ourselves when we see His plans for our destiny unfold.

I might, but it might help if I knew what was going on.

Don't blame yourself...many times when we first give our lives to ministry we feel called to do...we are idealistic and our expectations of being used are more glorious than the truth. To be "used" has never been a good thing; not with friends, leadership, or family, so why do we expect being "used" by God to be all ice cream & roses? The rewards may not be realized in this world...but we have a hope beyond this world anyway - don't we? The good things we enjoy along the way are only loaned to us by God and don't really belong to us anyway.

I certainly felt called. Now when I feel called to something, I greatly question it and think maybe I should run very far away.

No thanks are necessary...you are not alone, we are not alone. There are so many who are feeling/have felt the same way as us. We have been made strong to be able to stand in this time and this place for a reason. Be encouraged...He who hath begun a good work in you, will complete it.

Together with you in His grip,
Rhoni

It's nice to know I am not alone. It's a hard road. I do trust that God will lead me wherever He wants me even if I don't know how to follow.