For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

Originally Posted by freeatlast

No one, who has never been in the situation, can ever truly understand what those who have been touched by spiritual abuse, have been thru.

This is true. Though they can feel for the person, they really do not know. The same goes for any difficult situation as well and not just this subject. You know when you have connected with one who truly understands and has been there.

Sad thing..the abusers don't even understand what damage they are causing. Many in fact think they are doing it God's way.

I saw this mentioned by at least one other in this thread. This is very true. I've even said of my former UPC pastor, that if he realized how many people he harmed through the years, he would feel awful. But he was blind to the things he did. Thankfully he has retired and pastors no more.

I truly believe that the vast majority of apostolic ministers that have fallen into abusing people do not realize, or do not fully realize, what they are doing to people. Some are simply doing what they saw other ministers do that were also abusive. Some do what they do because they are over zealous in their beliefs and believe they have to help people keep what they feel is important to one's walk with God. Some have been hurt themselves and so they are always concerned someone may be trying to take over or cause trouble and so they impose rules that have no place in a body of believers. There's many reasons for why the abuser does what he or she does.

I believe any organization that issues ministerial licenses (no matter what they call themselves) should be concerned and take action when they hear about a minister they have licensed that is doing things that are harmful. They do have the authority to take away a license or not reissue one. To hide behind the statement that "we are just a ministerial organization and all our churches are autonomous" is a cop-out.

While that person holds a license, they are representing the organization that gave the license. Thus, as in the case of the UPC, their rules require that any minister licensed by the UPC who pastors a church, there is to be a mention of it being a UPC church on the sign somewhere. It matters not if they are officially affiliated.

So when one of these ministers gets messed up, their actions reflect on the organization. And when the organization does not take action, then it reflects poorly upon the entire body.

At my former church, the District Superintendent well knew there had been problems through the years. People from my church even went directly to him. A family from my church left (this was before my time there) and started attending the DS's church and their daughter married the pastor's son. That family knew of abuses in the church. There is no way that the District was ignorant.

But the years passed and people continued to be hurt and the pastor continued with his license, unchecked. This should never have been.

Lois

Originally Posted by Michlow

...Maybe its so hard, because that is EXACTLY what we were made to feel during the abuse. That we had no right to question! No right to feel negatively towards what was expected of us. That the situation wasn't the problem. WE were!

And then, when we finally start to deconstruct the dysfuction around us, well meaning people come along and in trying to help, simply make it more difficult.

Good thoughts, Michlow. There are so many aspects to this subject.

People who have not experienced spiritual abuse need education in this area. Someone who has only been in a healthy church has no clue as to what it's like for one who has been in an unhealthy one. Try telling that person that you were afraid to leave your church. They will be puzzled and shocked. Try explaining why you didn't just walk away when things started happening. They have nothing to relate your experience to. But these people can educate themselves so that they won't say things that harm more than help.

You also brought up something that happens a great deal. The one who brings up a problem somehow becomes the problem. In other words, that person becomes labeled and suspect because they questioned something that happened. There's no problem, it's all the fault of the one who thinks there is. And when others see what happens to the one who dares bring up a problem in an unhealthy church, they soon learn to keep things to themselves. Thus we see an unwritten rule working. Don't question or speak up.

Lois

Originally Posted by ILG

Hi Sarge!! Good to see you here!

Hello, my friend!

[Scott Hutchinson]

You know if I ever get to be a Pastor I think I could care for a flock of God ,as I have no desire to dominate or control anybody.

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

when someone forgives an abuser, any abuser, in or out of the church setting, that still does not erase the memory. there is only one person that can forgive and forget, God. as a human we do not have access to that "sea of forgetfulness" that so many want us to use.

This is true.

i really think this is why many that have been abused have so much trouble finding healing, because we still remember, so therefore we must have not really forgiven that person.

In some cases, this is so. Personally, I don't feel this is a major hindrance for most. A person has a sense of knowing if they have forgiven or not, even though they remember- and, yes, even though things may yet hurt. There is a huge release for the one who forgives.

but i do know, had it not been for my pain, and the things i have gone through, i would not have the insight i have now. i can show mercy to those who have been abused because i "know" their pain. i would have rather not walked in those shoes, but at least now i can use my experience to understand the next abused person i run across.

Well stated and very true.

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

and unlike those that feel we are church or pastor bashing, i think it was very well done.

Anyone who feels this is about preacher bashing is without proper understanding of what is happening. I've seen preacher bashing and it is not conducive to the healing process. However, I also understand that sometimes people have to vent some to get past that state and move forward.

if i wanted to bash the preachers that hurt me so bad, believe me, i would have their names, phone numbers and addresses posted all over this forum.

I understand. I've had people say this about me and I have to chuckle to myself because I know all the negative things I could have posted years back and did not.

The thought that one cannot or should not speak about these things is erroneous. Even the Bible addresses problems the early church had. Some people's names are given, too. And these things have been read for literally hundreds of years, all over the earth.

its good to just be able to talk about it and not have to get into who said this and who did that.

Ah, now come on! Name names. If you don't, you can be discredited. If you do, then you are accused of other things. Either way, in some people's eyes, you will never be in a 'win' situation. You're wrong if you do and wrong if you don't.

Originally Posted by Sarge

Ah, now come on! Name names. If you don't, you can be discredited. If you do, then you are accused of other things. Either way, in some people's eyes, you will never be in a 'win' situation. You're wrong if you do and wrong if you don't.

sigh, how true, how true.

[RandyWayne]

I'm not "dying to know names!' unlike some simply because I would not know any of them anyways.
But I have to admire you..... If it was ME, I would probably be plastering their names up on billboards and on web sites in order to expose their filthy secrets.

one of the main reasons i do not like including names is because its this kind of thing a good bit of these folks live for. they want to hear all the dirt on bro and sis so-and-so.

just not my style.

Originally Posted by SisBeezer

one of the main reasons i do not like including names is because its this kind of thing a good bit of these folks live for. they want to hear all the dirt on bro and sis so-and-so.

If that is someone's motive, they have big time problems. They have a long ways to go in their healing.