Why men hate church

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you believe the reason more men don't go to church is that they don't get to tell the preacher he doesnt have a clue what that verse means in front of everyone else?

I think your somewhat misrepresenting what Chris was intending to say. He is not stressing the negative of not being able to challenge a pastor. He is stressing the positive of an environment where one can question someone in real time.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I think your somewhat misrepresenting what Chris was intending to say. He is not stressing the negative of not being able to challenge a pastor. He is stressing the positive of an environment where one can question someone in real time.

Well I was kidding however it seems he was not saying "ask the Pastor questions" but rather give their own opinion on the passage.

[Esaias]

1 Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Renee how does having a HOME CHURCH fix the problem of attracting more men?

I have no idea! I don't know as it would, but if the men that did come, were taught that they were to be godly men. And women taught how to be a godly woman, to love their husbands, to TRAIN their children. Not let the TV do it, or the schools do it.

Any man that loved his wife as he did his own self, would have to have an awfully hardhearted wife, for her not to love him back.

A man nor a wife is not to manipulate each other or the children. Children have to be trained, and yes, I believe in spanking the children.

If you notice, in God's Word, He has told us many things to do, or not do. But He does not make anyone do anything. I thank God, that He sometimes disciplines us, if we are disobedient, and again, that is for out training. You can still go against the discipline and end up hardhearted, with your conscience seared as with a hot iron.

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

(That throws withholding sex, out the window)

6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

These are the things that they should be taught before they are married and if they do not agree, they shouldn't marry. They should agree on how they will raise their children. How they will handle money. That the husband is the Head, that means that he is responsible for the family. That doesn't mean that he is the big boss, and everyone should shake in their boots if they disagree. If they disagree, they should be allowed to say so. And have a good reason. And a kind and gentle husband will listen and not be too arrogant to change his mind. A wife should not deliberately go against her husbands wishes.

And a husband has no right to demand that the family do things----just because he said so. He should always consider that the Word says, “that a man is to love his wife as he does his own body.”

These are some of the things that I would teach, along with 1 Cor 13. And possibly when the Husband saw that his wife really does love him, he might just come to a home meeting to see what was going on.

[thaddaeus417]

Timely discussion as a group from my church was recently talking about this. I will say that my church is the opposite with mostly men being the spiritual strength of the congregation.

I visit many local churches and some are almost void of men. My Father has never attended church and growing up the women went to church on Sunday, men did guy stuff. My observation is that men just don't like to be told what to do, what they can not do.
Recently at work a group was talking religion and one guy spoke up and said "I just don't want a church that tells me what I can't do." That satisfied the group and the conversation was over. Men are just dedicated heathens.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

1 Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

You believe that Paul was speaking about someone quoting a passage and teaching on it and then other "prophets" near giving their opinion on that verse??

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

I have no idea! I don't know as it would, but if the men that did come, were taught that they were to be godly men. And women taught how to be a godly woman, to love their husbands, to TRAIN their children. Not let the TV do it, or the schools do it.

You don't need to be in someones living room in order to do that Renee. You can do that anywhere

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819 View Post

I have no idea! I don't know as it would, but if the men that did come, were taught that they were to be godly men. And women taught how to be a godly woman, to love their husbands, to TRAIN their children. Not let the TV do it, or the schools do it.

Praxeas wrote,
You don't need to be in someones living room in order to do that Renee. You can do that anywhere

I know. But is it being taught in our churches? Or are they afraid that the men will leave?
There is no doubt about it, our society has feminized men. And the men that has realized this, and rebelled against it, sometimes become brutes. Or feel that they have to prove their manhood by acting tough.

And women have been taught to be masculine. Women should have freedom, but anytime anything changes in society, IN THE WORLD, it is always taken to the extreme. And those that don't go along are thought to be fanatical. And now that the Church, is catering to the world, Christians don't know anymore where to draw the line. And it is hard to know. I love the book, “The Titus 2 Woman.” There should be more like it and coming from our ranks.

The Church should hold the line, but not with man-made Laws. But with the TEACHING and TRAINING of LOVE, and with LOVE. I wish God would anoint me to write such a book, but so far, I don't feel capable. And Christians sitting on the fence and have gotten a taste of the world and a taste for money, would listen to me, in a book, about like those on this Forum listens.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You believe that Paul was speaking about someone quoting a passage and teaching on it and then other "prophets" near giving their opinion on that verse??

I believe he meant just what he said.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you believe the reason more men don't go to church is that they don't get to tell the preacher he doesnt have a clue what that verse means in front of everyone else?

No. lol

I'm saying that essentially we don't have a voice. We cant' share what we might know or think about a topic. We can't question the teacher for more information. We can't openly discuss differences of opinion on various passages, subjects, or positions. We're expected to sing along, clap, throw our 10% in the plate, and just play along with the performance. Any commentary, any sharing, any questioning has to be done afterwards for a quick two minutes while the pastor performs meet-and-greet, or in a scheduled office visit that rarely goes as well as we imagined it.

House church provides a more conversational format. An interactive dialogue. And unless something is rank heresy, most house churches I know are very tolerant of individual convictions or opinions.

But all of that is just ONE dimension to the issue. Beyond the church just expecting men to be silent observers... the church does little else. I mean, what has the church done for men lately??? I'm talking about the practical day to day manhood and fatherhood. I'm talking about getting us grounded in our identity as men, father's, and husbands.

Don't get me wrong... I've seen a few churches have successful men's ministry. But most allow it to fizzle out... the pastor doesn't really "get in there"... and if the pastor does the men hide their true selves and don't open up because the political fallout of confessing one's faults or sins could destroy us... etc.

Men have no REAL authority in the home.
Men have no REAL voice in the church (accept a select few).
Men have no REAL haven to open up and be healed emotionally or spiritually.

I still think I'm not explaining it well. lol