Honorary Degrees and Diploma Mills

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Hoovie, I think I can give you a great example.

CLC is an unaccredited institution. However they require, or did, actual classwork for each credit. I was able to transfer in credit from a community college that directly related to the classes I would need for my degree. After graduation many schools would not accept my degree from CLC. Regent looked at the coursework I had to complete and after one semester in their masters program (Divinity) I earned a 3.92 (thanks to an A- in a missions class) for 16 credit hours. I was then admitted to the law school based on my unaccredited, but earned, degree from CLC and my score on the LSAT.


A diploma mill often asks for nothing other than a payment, or substandard work like a single paper (SEU) for a degree. A single paper for a degree as opposed to Dr. Segraves going to Regent for 4 or 5 years and doing extensive course work throughout that time plus a thesis. Comparing the two shows the difference in a diploma mill and an earned degree.

I don't know that anyone would admit a student on the basis of an honorary degree. It is really more of an honor than a degree. For instance the governor of Virginia, Bob McDonald, received an honorary Doctorate last year . He has earned a BA, a Masters, and his JD. The doctorate is just an honor.

Degree mill = The standard is $ ... the rigor is POOP.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Don't forget that many jobs give pay raises based on accredited diplomas. So even though a school may not have a great reputation among employers they still may be valid degrees, that have a monetary value.

Congress has had numerous hearings regarding diploma mills as government employees have used these to get bogus degrees and accompanying pay raises.

Also, your ability to get into other schools are enhanced based on accredited degrees.

I totally agree. The point is that degrees from diploma mills are going to have absolutely no monetary value (you won't get a job with them. you might get a pay increase at a job you already have with them. you also will have absolutely no chance of getting into another school with a diploma from a diploma mill)

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I totally agree. The point is that degrees from diploma mills are going to have absolutely no monetary value (you won't get a job with them. you might get a pay increase at a job you already have with them.)

Until you get fired for lying to your employer.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Until you get fired for lying to your employer.

Just make sure he keeps drinkin your kool-aid :P

[Hoovie]

Thanks a lot folks. I appreciate your assistance.

As I understand it then, these "mills" really have no curriculum or coursework in place, which eliminates the possibility of "earning" anything. Further they also have no learning facility or real faculty.


So... if one had claimed an "Honorary Ph.D Southern Eastern University" it would at least be somewhat less egregious, because there is no implication that they had earned it at all...

Of course, this does not really take into account SEU is no real University and no one could possibly "earn" a Ph.D there. Seems it would be less than "honorable" to even accept an "Honarary Degree", from a dishonorable "institution".

But when one lists "Ph.D Southern Eastern University" under "Degrees" it's actually deceptive to those who think the individual might be something of an expert in his field.


My next question... one my intuition tells me to discard, but here goes...

Since we have called out a well known speaker for touting a paper mill degree, is anyone interested in compiling a list of AFFers who have any of these bogus degrees from the paper mills? How about those who have been "honored" by the same "Institutions"?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Thanks a lot folks. I appreciate your assistance.

As I understand it then, these "mills" really have no curriculum or coursework in place, which eliminates the possibility of "earning" anything. Further they also have no learning facility or real faculty.


So... if one had claimed an "Honorary Ph.D Southern Eastern University" it would at least be somewhat less egregious, because there is no implication that they had earned it at all...

Of course, this does not really take into account SEU is no real University and no one could possibly "earn" a Ph.D there. Seems it would be less than "honorable" to even accept an "Honarary Degree", from a dishonorable "institution".

But when one lists "Ph.D Southern Eastern University" under "Degrees" it's actually deceptive to those who think the individual might be something of an expert in his field.


My next question... one my intuition tells me to discard, but here goes...

Since we have called out a well known speaker for touting a paper mill degree, is anyone interested in compiling a list of AFFers who have any of these bogus degrees from the paper mills? How about those who have been "honored" by the same "Institutions"?

What? No confessions yet?

[rgcraig]

When I started back to college last year, I was surprised that they reviewed my transcript from JCM and allowed me 16 hrs knowing it was an unaccredited college. Grateful, but surprised. Of course, I attended JCM for two and a half years, so I guess they figured that 16 hrs was fair.

I'm half way to my B.A.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

When I started back to college last year, I was surprised that they reviewed my transcript from JCM and allowed me 16 hrs knowing it was an unaccredited college. Grateful, but surprised. Of course, I attended JCM for two and a half years, so I guess they figured that 16 hrs was fair.

I'm half way to my B.A.

When I started my last degree (had just turned 37) they still wanted to see my high school transcripts. THAT was fun because I was homeschooled my last two years and had a devil of a time tracking down the school.

[Sam]

I consider my Th.D. degree real.
I do not have it framed and hanging on the wall but will probably put it up there some day.
I have been retired for several years so I will not be referencing it on any job applications or resumes.

Also, I don't refer to myself as "Doc" or use the Th.D. after my name, but I guess I could.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I have some questions after seeing the stir on another thread.
I suspect I am not the only one with these questions. Perhaps because I have no college degrees at all, and no experience in earning the same, I feel at liberty to pick the minds of others on this.

1. What constitutes a "Degree Mill/Diploma Mill"?
Wikipedia is vague on this I think. To say an organization with "substandard or no academic study and without recognition by official educational accrediting bodies" really does not satisfy the question for me.

2. Do you agree with this distiction?
* A degree mill provides a "real" degree from a fake college.
* A diploma mill provides a fake degree from a real college.

3. Does an "Honorary Degree" always imply something "not earned"? Are there legitimate "Honorary Degrees" issued by legitimate colleges and universities, or are these all to be considered "worthless paper"?

4. Would you ever accept an Honorary Degree based on your life's work or studies etc?

I recall attending a seminar where the wife of a former GS spoke of getting a degree which was at least partially based on her lifes work and completed literary skills. Does that mean it's pretty much "unearned"? Bogus?

By the Wikipedia definition Gateway or even UGST may be a degree or diploma mill...

Dr. John Bear has long been the "expert" on these matters. DA2 referenced him in another thread. Even long before there were "online" classes, there was Bear's Guide to Schools.

The thing about Gateway (and presumably UGST) is that you actually have to do work to earn a degree. Granted, from my own experience at Gateway, much of the "work" was stuff I had already mastered in Middle School, but "work" was still expected.

A "Diploma Mill" is simply a place where "previous experience" is given "college credits" and a degree is then run of the presses (the "mill") and for just a fee, one is rewarded with a "degree."

Most "Mills" have responded to criticism and begun to require "work." "Dr." Kent Hovind ("Doctor Dino") purchased a Doctorate that only required a thesis from him. He made the mistake of posting his "thesis" to "prove he earned" his degree. That thing became a viral comedy piece.

The bottom line any more is accreditation. Is the school accredited with one of the REGIONAL accrediting agencies? Many degree mills have their own accrediting groups. They are basically "accredited" by themselves. This is not a good sign.

The Urshan school is seeking accreditation currently. Gateway was seeking it when I was there, but they appear to have given up on it. Once a school become accredited it's past degrees are usually grandfathered in so alumni are able to benefit.

Look for a "big school" accreditation. If you settle for anything else you're wasting your time and money.