The Legalist on Covenant

[TheLegalist]

bump for delta

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

So you believe we are saved BEFORE repentance? WOW you are on the extreme other end.

I didn't say saved. You can't be saved without repentance. I said born again. We are regenerated by the work of the Holy Spirit and therefore must repent in a response to our new birth. But to try to separate the exact moment when all this happens may be hard to do.

Even if we are only born again a few seconds before our mind is change towards God I still think that we are regenerated by God and given the gift of repentance. Not sure how this is so extreme.

[deltaguitar]

I do want to say though, you can't separate faith and repentance going along with the new birth. We are regenerated by God but a regenerated man will continue in faith and will repent. Repentance to me has to be almost instantaneous after new birth to the point that it might not be easy to distinguish between the two.

[Praxeas]

How does the fact that it is a testament ratified upon the death of the testator play into this?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I do want to say though, you can't separate faith and repentance going along with the new birth. We are regenerated by God but a regenerated man will continue in faith and will repent. Repentance to me has to be almost instantaneous after new birth to the point that it might not be easy to distinguish between the two.

Sounds like a deterministic form of faith... "a regenerated person WILL CONTINUE" See the Bible talks about slothful servants, and also those who don't continue and fall away. As usual reformed dogma forces only TWO options(regenerated or unregenerated) instead of what the Bible teaches.

Again you said "Repentance to me has to be almost instantaneous after new birth" sorry but you clearly are Calvinistic in your teaching on this. Repentance to you is AFTER salvation. Thus not necessary to be saved. Your view does not allow one to count the cost. Does not allow one to reason. Does not allow one to cast off his life in choice to follow. You have saved people never even choosing covenant.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I didn't say saved. You can't be saved without repentance. I said born again. We are regenerated by the work of the Holy Spirit and therefore must repent in a response to our new birth. But to try to separate the exact moment when all this happens may be hard to do.

Even if we are only born again a few seconds before our mind is change towards God I still think that we are regenerated by God and given the gift of repentance. Not sure how this is so extreme.

Repentance is a CHOICE. The offering of turning is the gospel in which we respond.

You say you did not say saved yet you make new birth BEFORE repentance. You can't say I have been born again and not saved. Yet you say I didn ot say saved. LOL

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How does the fact that it is a testament ratified upon the death of the testator play into this?

explain further.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

ROFL.... I will deal with this when I have time. Have some meetings today. Thanks for your concern. Spoken like a true Faith Only person!

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

"Faith Only", . . . wow, faith only? I can only shake my head at this.

"Faith only" in "Jesus only!"

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Repentance is a CHOICE. The offering of turning is the gospel in which we respond.

You say you did not say saved yet you make new birth BEFORE repentance. You can't say I have been born again and not saved. Yet you say I didn ot say saved. LOL

We do respond to the gospel with repentance. However, an unregenerate heart cannot turn towards God. I believe that I do have a response in my salvation but it is not the decisive action. Jesus not only paid for my salvation at calvary but he also purchased the salvation work of all those who were given to him by the Father.

Why do I believe this? Looking back I can see that I tried everything I could to find God. A million times I tried to repent and come to him and a million times I failed and didn't receive what I thought I needed. I tried crying in the altar, I tried baptism, I tried speaking in tongues but just couldn't fake it anymore. I tried reading my bible and committing my life to him but it was all for nothing until I was born again by true faith that it was finished on the cross.

God pulls at our hearts and though we resist he is right there working in our salvation. A part of my resistance was the Acts 2:38/water and spirit doctrine. I thought that if I did this he owed me salvation and that some miracle would happen and I would feel saved. But I didn't feel saved because I wasn't. I hadn't been preached the gospel and if I had it was so obscured by the message being preached that I couldn't see the gospel.

Legalist, I loved the message that I was taught to the point that I couldn't be saved. My mind was so clouded with what I was supposed to do that I couldn't see how God had anything to do with my salvation.

BTW, I do consider myself to be reformed or calvinist.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by pelathais

"Faith only" in "Jesus only!"

Amen!