We're Not Putting X-Mas Trees Up!

[StMark]

Do you ANTI CHRISTmas folk decline your christmas bonuses on your jobs????????

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I understand what you're saying. But here's the issue, no one's keeping the "celebration of Saturnalia". Frankly, I've only heard the term "Saturnalia" in forum debates like these. I never even mention it around Christmas time in my home or anywhere else. I'm sure I could ask my family what "Saturnalia" is and they'd think it was a bacteria. lol

To me it's primarily seasonal and cultural. The religious aspect of Christmas is honorary.

Not all pagans even celebrate Saturnalia. Not even all would know what it is. I didn't really look it up until I started posting here and seeing it all over. lol

Yule on the other hand....that's pretty familiar. And also not on the 25th.

I used to celebrate Yule on Solstice and the Americanized Christmas on the 25th. They were semi separated in my mind.

I get the idea that it's a cultural holiday and celebration. I just don't get tying it all up in Jesus when it has nothing to do with Him.

It'd seem a lot like claiming He must have fed the 5000 the fish and loaves on the 4th of July and if not, it's a good enough reason to celebrate it anyhow! Ok...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

No.



Yes.



Yes, of Jewish origin. And since Christianity began as a Jewish sect...it makes sense.



Not given in my church, but there is an opportunity to call the elders to pray with you if you desire.



Jewish origin.



Teaching on the Sabbath is of Jewish origin.



No.



No.



It could. One thing I am is extremely consistent. Would you like to go on?



Not if you're considering Christianity as a separate religion from Judaism, no. But since Judaism was established by the same God I worship, I kind of figure it works for Him... But, I'm learning that there may be those here who wish to completely separate themselves from the Old Testament. It intrigues me.



It was still an idol. There's no judgment in that statement, the story made me smile. But no matter how precious those people were, no matter how sincere that gift was, no matter how much that pastor didn't worship it..it was still an idol.



And God told His people to remain separate from the cultures and customs of the other nations.

Pulpits, as we use them, are deeply rooted in Greek paganism. The philosophers would often teach from them. The priesthood didn't teach from behind a pulipit. In fact they stood and read the Scriptures typically elevated in the Temple with nothing in front of them. Early Christians met in homes and taught Scripture with open discussion.

The tithe is part of the Jewish temple system that was superceded by Christianity.

When I mentioned the "sermon" I meant in the sense of there behing a speaker and observers without open discussion of Scripture. The early church didn't do it like this. The Romanized structure took this format from the pagan Philosophers.

nahkoe, and idol is nothing.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Not all pagans even celebrate Saturnalia. Not even all would know what it is. I didn't really look it up until I started posting here and seeing it all over. lol

Yule on the other hand....that's pretty familiar. And also not on the 25th.

I used to celebrate Yule on Solstice and the Americanized Christmas on the 25th. They were semi separated in my mind.

I get the idea that it's a cultural holiday and celebration. I just don't get tying it all up in Jesus when it has nothing to do with Him.

It'd seem a lot like claiming He must have fed the 5000 the fish and loaves on the 4th of July and if not, it's a good enough reason to celebrate it anyhow! Ok...

No serious scholar holds to the idea that Jesus was actually born on December 25th. The day is a day chosen to remember and honor his birth. No one knows when Jesus was actually born. In my opinion it's not a bad idea to overwrite pagan customs. It refocuses the mind. For example, Christmas used to be a day of revelry and chaos that many Christians were tempted to participate in. It was also full of looting and danger. It was viewed with dread. However, after connecting Christ to it we moved it from being a dark winter holiday to focusing the masses on Christ. And some may disagree with me, but the comercialization of Christmas has also helped remove it from being a winter's night of chaos and revelry. We reset the cultural tone and transformed an entire culture. Which is far more than what fundies are accomplishing in modern times.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pulpits, as we use them, are deeply rooted in Greek paganism. The philosophers would often teach from them. The priesthood didn't teach from behind a pulipit. In fact they stood and read the Scriptures typically elevated in the Temple with nothing in front of them. Early Christians met in homes and taught Scripture with open discussion.

Nehemiah 8:4

Originally Posted by Aquila

The tithe is part of the Jewish temple system that was superceded by Christianity.

When I mentioned the "sermon" I meant in the sense of there behing a speaker and observers without open discussion of Scripture. The early church didn't do it like this. The Romanized structure took this format from the pagan Philosophers.

The early church met in Synagogues on the Sabbath, as they were Jewish. No one who was not a rabbi was allowed to teach the Scriptures during that time in history. They would meet in homes on Sunday morning..what we'd call Saturday night (after sundown, after leaving the synagogue) to worship Jesus because that wasn't something they were allowed to do in the synagogue.

But, you believe that Christianity superceded Judaism there's not much more I have to say here, really. If you believe that, then yes what you''re saying is accurate.

Originally Posted by Aquila

nahkoe, and idol is nothing.

That's not how God feels about it. But we're at an impasse here. I know I won't budge, and I doubt you will either.

[2020Vision]

I have no right to parade my freedom on you, Bro. Alex. I appreciate your conviction against celebrating Christmas. Hopefully you at least take advantage of the pause at the end of the year and get together with family. Our family enjoys the traditions, and in no way participates in the paganism. We bring the family together, play games, open gifts, thank each other, read the Christmas Story and unwind until the New Year.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pulpits, as we use them, are deeply rooted in Greek paganism. The philosophers would often teach from them. The priesthood didn't teach from behind a pulipit. In fact they stood and read the Scriptures typically elevated in the Temple with nothing in front of them. Early Christians met in homes and taught Scripture with open discussion.

The tithe is part of the Jewish temple system that was superceded by Christianity.

When I mentioned the "sermon" I meant in the sense of there behing a speaker and observers without open discussion of Scripture. The early church didn't do it like this. The Romanized structure took this format from the pagan Philosophers.

nahkoe, and idol is nothing.

Almost everything has some pagan beginning. I guess we just get through these things in prayer and conviction. If my brother doesn't want to do Christmas, that's fine. Just know it's possible to live in the world and not be of it. It's possible to celebrate Christmas, by focusing on the story of Christ. It's a holiday tradition that wasn't set forth by the Apostles, but surely has good value for Christianity. The whole speaks of Christ in many of our Christmas songs that are on the airwaves. To God be the Glory!

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you post the information from those references?

I could but why?

If you posted a reference, I would look it up unless I was in the Arctic where there was no library or internet.

I was at Loyola Marymount University doing some work on their antenna system and I picked up their encyclopedia and looked up Christmas and it was very plain in its explanation of Christ's Mass.

How would you like to stand in judgment and tell Jesus you were too lazy to look up something?

Long Live the Berean's spirit!

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by Aquila

In my opinion there's a difference between celebrating Christmas as, "Christ's Birth Day", and choosing Christmas as a day to honor Christ's birth. Choosing to replace an ancient Pagan celebration is quite fitting. It's like razing an ancient pagan temple and building a Church over it's ruins.

I believe in taking DOMINION over all things bringing them into submission and using them to honor Christ...I don't believing in running scared.

The difference here is, not only do you erect a church over it but you have moved the furniture from the old pagan temple and moved it into the Church after its erection.

[RandyWayne]

Better keep that steeple off the church roof as well.