Can you turn your head fast enough when a less than Godly budweiser commercial comes on? Or maybe you can close your eyes and cover your ears real, real fast.
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There is a conspiracy of silence in the land.
Yes, but the average sheep does not have the Holy Ghost living inside of it to give it a good sense of direction. If my sense of direction came primarily from what my pastor said and not from my personal prayer life, relationship with the Good Shepherd, the leading of the Holy Ghost, the illuminating word which is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path...I would be pretty concerned.
Your analogy with all due respect is flawed. The stance you have is like someone having told people for years not to take Tylenol due to the potential side affects, but embracing the taking of much more dangerous habit forming drugs like OxyContin that have much more serious potential side affects.
It is a misnomer that people have used to say that the TV is only for entertainment. There is plenty of educational and informational information that you can choose to watch. There are channels that only provide such content....And by the way, not all entertainment is bad. Even the things that I would watch for entertainment would not violate my Biblical principles. Is there a difference between watching Bassmaster fishing on ESPN and watching someone fish from your boat. Is there a difference between your children watching Barney, Blue's Clues and Sesame Street via DVD or TV.
In regards to the other issue. To answer your question, in Houston many churches spend a lot of money advertising their churches with phenomenal results. A young pastor started a church called Higher Dimensions and due to an aggressive ad campaign, the church became a household name and has thousands of members. Had I never seen the commercials (while not even looking for his church), they could exist for 50 years and I would never know it.
I can tell you that the Fellowship of the Woodlands has opened a second location not far from my house. I can tell you this because they advertised it aggressively. I can tell you that Second Baptist is the "One Church with Five Locations" because that is there ad campaign. And I could go on and on believe me.
This underscores why I said that TV advertising is more effective than the internet. I was not looking for these churches. I did not know the names of these churches to even search for them in the first place. The millions of people who still do not have cable only have a half dozen or so viewing options. People with basic cable may have 70 or so. The advanced cable gives you options in the hundreds. Whereas the internet has an infinite amount of viewing options.
The chances of reaching someone who is watching 6 channels are pretty good. A dozen adds on your local stations would hit so many people.
I maintain our churches website and I keep up with the site traffic. I did list us with as many search engines as possible...but the fact remains that someone would have to be looking for us, and specifically our kind in order for us to have a chance at reaching them.
Obviously we will agree to disagree on this issue. It would be interesting to me for you to call the churches you mention which have built large congregations and ask them what percentage of their growth they attribute to TV advertising. And more importantly what percentage of new conversions they attribute to it.
Obviously we will agree to disagree on this issue. It would be interesting to me for you to call the churches you mention which have built large congregations and ask them what percentage of their growth they attribute to TV advertising. And more importantly what percentage of new conversions they attribute to it.
Bishop you're not seeing my point. I don't have to ask anyone because I'm telling you that the only reason I personally know these things is because I saw advertisements. If I were open to visiting a church in the area in search for a home church, I probably would visit the Fellowship of the Woodlands that opened up nearby. In part because it would be one of the only churches in the area that I feel I know anything about.
In order for me to have found their website, I would have had to been looking for a church, and even then it's a crapshoot as to whether I would have stumbled across them. Television advertising is one of the only ways you can reach the unchurched even if they are not actively putting forth effort to find you.
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There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Can you turn your head fast enough when a less than Godly budweiser commercial comes on? Or maybe you can close your eyes and cover your ears real, real fast.
I pretty much do the same thing that I do everytime I drive by a less than Godly budweiser billboard, walk by a less than Godly magazine in the supermarket, have less than Godly advertisements on the same page as what I want to watch on youtube, have less than Godly advertisements when I check my yahoo mail, see a less than Godly book at Borders, see people dressed less than godly at the mall, see people drinking budweisers in real life, see people dressed scantily at the park, I could go on but I hope you see my point....
And no I don't "close your eyes and cover your ears real, real fast"...I would be in a car accident everyday.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I'll get the purple marker if you hold them down while I write on the forheads.
=)
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
The decision made by the UPC elders against owning a TV was made decades and decades ago. The decision was accompanied by tongues and interpretation. Has God blessed the organization since then? Yes he has, for decades and decades. The benefits of the Organization now came from the price that has been paid in the past for decades.
Did Jesus know that issues were going to come up in the church after he was gone in which MEN would have to discuss make decisions? Yes he did - read Matt 18. Did Jesus in the same passage say that whatever they - MEN - decided upon, that he would stand behind them and bind/loose them in heaven? Yes he did. Do we have a very practical example of that in Acts? Yes we do concerning circumcision of the Gentiles. Did the elders of the church come together and talk about it and make a decision in which afterwards they wrote that "it seemed good unto the Holy Ghost and unto us..."; indicating that somehow God showed by His Spirit in man that he backed up the decision? Yes they did.
Do you think the decision was made by a bunch of old country bumkins who didn't know what they were doing? Do you think that we are better than them because we are in the 21st century now?
Now concerning holiness and people one is witnessing to who are not yet saved, Jesus said this...
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
This means that people cannot bear certain things UNTIL AFTER they are converted. That is why you don't see any/much teaching of Jesus to HIS disciples concerning things He requires of His people about holiness. That is why you read about holiness stuff in the epistles - letters written to churches/people who were already saved. That is why you don't read about Jesus teaching about hair in the gospels.
With people who are lost, the most important thing is for them to first get saved, by hearing the preaching/teaching of the gospel - the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and how it shows that we can now be born again. You don't clean a fish before you catch it - you have to catch it first.
Then after they are saved, they grow in grace and knowledge and live a life of loving obedience to the one who first loved them. Usually a person who loves the Lord with everything doesn't have a problem doing the things that He wants them to. Because we are no longer our own, we have been bought with a price. Let the Pastor preach/teach the word and the principles based upon the word and let the Holy Ghost convict.
Holiness standards are based upon biblical principles such as:
- loving not the world neither the things that are in the world
- coming out from among them and being separate
- touch not the unclean thing
- friendship with the world is emnity with God
- present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, and acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service
- being not conformed to this world, but being transformed
- not being brought under the power of any
- abstain from ALL appearance of evil
- not setting any wicked thing before our eyes
- be careful what you hear
- modesty in clothing
- not wearing gold or silver
- not partaking of the modern idols of the world; etc
Apostolic does NOT mean inward focus only with NO outward focus on evangelizing. Apostolic churches are all about evangelizing and winning the lost. My church has grown considerably since my Pastor took it over almost 30 years ago. I'm not aware of any 1 Apostolic church whose sole focus is only inwardly.
Incidentally, there is one well-known church in our city that has had great growth, but you know at what cost? They don't preach the apostle's doctrine. What good is growth if they compromise truth? What good is growth if they convince a whole city that they are saved when in fact they are not. They make them 2 fold more the child of hell because you have to first convince them that they are deceived and are still lost FIRST before you can get them to do anything to be REALLY saved.
POTD!!!!!!!
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Bishop you're not seeing my point. I don't have to ask anyone because I'm telling you that the only reason I personally know these things is because I saw advertisements. If I were open to visiting a church in the area in search for a home church, I probably would visit the Fellowship of the Woodlands that opened up nearby. In part because it would be one of the only churches in the area that I feel I know anything about.
In order for me to have found their website, I would have had to been looking for a church, and even then it's a crapshoot as to whether I would have stumbled across them. Television advertising is one of the only ways you can reach the unchurched even if they are not actively putting forth effort to find you.
I see your point very clearly! I think maybe you're missing mine. I understand that you know about these churches only because you saw them on TV, however, you are saved already, and if you were looking for a church you would not be an unchurched individual looking. My point is that while they are advertising on TV and you found out about them, how much of their growth is directly a result of TV. And more importantly, how many new conversions are because of TV. If they are simply growing because they are effective advertisers who attract people from one church to the next greatest thing, the advertising is not accomplishing evangelism, it is only facilitating swapping fish from one aquarium to another.
When we talk about evangelism, it can only be measured by new conversions. Transferring members from church to church just because of a strong marketing campaign is not true evangelism. IMO This is one of the greatest misconceptions in Pentecost, we market ourselves to attract other Apostolics, not to attract sinners.
George Barna and company have done the research. According to their studies less than 1% of people in any church are directly or indirectly there because of TV.
I see your point very clearly! I think maybe you're missing mine. I understand that you know about these churches only because you saw them on TV, however, you are saved already, and if you were looking for a church you would not be an unchurched individual looking. My point is that while they are advertising on TV and you found out about them, how much of their growth is directly a result of TV. And more importantly, how many new conversions are because of TV. If they are simply growing because they are effective advertisers who attract people from one church to the next greatest thing, the advertising is not accomplishing evangelism, it is only facilitating swapping fish from one aquarium to another.
George Barna and company have done the research. According to their studies less than 1% of people in any church are directly or indirectly there because of TV.
In the case of Higher Dimensions I would say that most of their growth is a result of their aggressive ad campaign. I met the pastor a while back. He is a young guy who did it in just a few years .
To the issue of conversion, of course what would happen when we get them to our church would be different than what would happen when they go to these other churches. My point is that they are being successful in getting people there in the first place because they are utilizing the most effective means. I do know there website now...but only because I saw it on TV...when I wasn't even looking for it. Advertising can most certainly accomplish evangelism. The issue of conversion is seperate. But I am confident that if we get them to my church, many will be converted.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I pretty much do the same thing that I do everytime I drive by a less than Godly budweiser billboard, walk by a less than Godly magazine in the supermarket, have less than Godly advertisements on the same page as what I want to watch on youtube, have less than Godly advertisements when I check my yahoo mail, see a less than Godly book at Borders, see people dressed less than godly at the mall, see people drinking budweisers in real life, see people dressed scantily at the park, I could go on but I hope you see my point....
And no I don't "close your eyes and cover your ears real, real fast"...I would be in a car accident everyday.
Living your everyday life and seeing junk is different then choosing to watch tv, knowing you'll see junk for the sake of being entertained, or "educated".
__________________
There is a conspiracy of silence in the land.
Re: Have You Been to WWPF Lately?
It would be interesting to me for you to call the churches you mention which have built large congregations and ask them what percentage of their growth they attribute to TV advertising. And more importantly what percentage of new conversions they attribute to it.
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