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06-11-2008, 11:26 AM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by bishoph
So........ are you one who believes that since Christ has appeared and the NT has been written that we no longer need the OT?
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No. I just don't overwork it to try and add to the NT. It has its place.
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06-11-2008, 11:30 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 952
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by Baron1710
No. I just don't overwork it to try and add to the NT. It has its place.
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No Adding to the NT, just supporting what it teaches with the OT. A "type" and the fulfillment is consistent in both OT & NT. JMO
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06-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishoph
No Adding to the NT, just supporting what it teaches with the OT. A "type" and the fulfillment is consistent in both OT & NT. JMO
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I agree, I just don't take it as far as you.
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06-11-2008, 11:57 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by Baron1710
But aren't choices based on informed decisions? If I am not informed about an idea how can I accept or reject it? The Ability to choose means there are choices in front of me? If I am never presented with the opportunity to accept or reject what Christ did for me then what?
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Nope choices are made on the ability to choose not the information one does not avail himself to. Truth is available you might have to hunt for it but if you seek you will find.
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06-11-2008, 05:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by Adino
Mizpeh, do you believe man who is born spiritually alive possesses the indwelling of God at birth? Is man indwelled by God at birth only to subsequently have the Spirit leave him?
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no, man is born spiritually alive because a baby doesn't have the knowledge of good and evil and hasn't sinned therefore they are not separated from God.
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How was David shapen (brought forth) in iniquity and conceived in sin? (Psalms 51:5)
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I don't know? Maybe this verse is referring to the sinful nature of our flesh. If we are born sinners then babies must have faith and repent from the moment of birth or a baby who dies is LOST.
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How do you interpret Romans 5:19 which says that Adam's transgression 'made' us sinners? It gives the impression we did not become sinners only after our first sin engendered by the sin nature but that Adam's sin actually made us sinners.
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Yeah, I'm not sure. I read it yesterday again. I'd have to read the whole chapter. Is death in this chapter talking about spiritual death or physical death? is Paul being consistent throughout?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-11-2008, 05:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley
This is the quandry they find themselves in. But to answer they will have them sinners and saints at the same time without any faith or disobedience.
Infants are innocent with a nature that will sin in time.
EVERY man is TEMPTED when he is drawn away of HIS OWN lusts an ENTICED, and when lust is CONCIEVED it brings forth sin.
An infant?
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That's why inheriting Adam's sin makes no sense. We inherit the consequences of Adam's sin, a sinful nature.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-11-2008, 05:52 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
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Originally Posted by Baron1710
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I think the Bible is sufficiently ambiguous on the subject so I can only go by my own sense of justice.
So then are babies, part of the bride or do they enjoy a different status from those who are saved?
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If they haven't sinned what do they have to be saved from?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-11-2008, 05:56 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
But aren't choices based on informed decisions? If I am not informed about an idea how can I accept or reject it? The Ability to choose means there are choices in front of me? If I am never presented with the opportunity to accept or reject what Christ did for me then what?
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Romans 1 says we all know that God exists what we chose with that knowledge is the start.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that R38 which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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06-11-2008, 05:59 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
If they haven't sinned what do they have to be saved from?
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I'm not sure. I've never satisfactorily answered this question for myself. I believe the Scripture teaches that through Adam all sinned. It could be that Christ death justified them as well. I don't know.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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06-11-2008, 06:01 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Original Sin/Ancestral Sin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Romans 1 says we all know that God exists what we chose with that knowledge is the start.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that R38 which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
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Agreed. But when I believe that there is a God from creation, that tells me nothing about a Savior. Can I be saved from what I can learn from nature?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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