Mizpeh, I will respond to your post ... I had typed a detailed response but lost it ...
by tonite, hopefully.
Dan,
In your own words, how do you reconcile these verses?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Mark 1:4-5 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Right. No mention of them being baptised in Jesus Name. It was John's baptism unto repentence.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
As you can see, John's baptism wasn't in Jesus Name.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Right. No mention of them being baptised in Jesus Name. It was John's baptism unto repentence.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
As you can see, John's baptism wasn't in Jesus Name.
Do you think John said anything when he baptized or did they just confess their sins? Did John baptize in his own name?
What makes you think Jesus baptism is the same as John's?
In Acts 19, the disciples had never heard of Jesus.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Well, since we settled that Elizabeth did have the H.G., would God fill someone with His Spirit without redeeming it first? Since redemption is a work of the Spirit, and repentance was readily preached and practiced, why would she not be saved?
Who said she was not saved? She had faith. She was obedient. BTW there is nothing that says she was permanently filled with the Spirit. It was a special function to prophesy. Perhaps filled pre-resurrection should be looked at different from after. After the resurrection it is given, poured out and is a gift to not only empower us to do His work but to sanctify and save us. Even Saul the king had the Spirit
1Sa 11:6 And the Spirit of God rushed upon Saul when he heard these words, and his anger was greatly kindled.
1Sa 19:20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David, and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as head over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
1Sa 19:21 When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied.
1Sa 19:22 Then he himself went to Ramah and came to the great well that is in Secu. And he asked, "Where are Samuel and David?" And one said, "Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah."
1Sa 19:23 And he went there to Naioth in Ramah. And the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah.
1Sa 19:24 And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is said, "Is Saul also among the prophets?"
Quote:
This also goes to the heart of 3 steps theology. As you and I should agree, many people are filled with the H.G. without ever being baptized in water. Water does not save you, it has no redemptive value.
Your last statement is a typical strawman fallacy. Nobody that believes in Water baptism in Jesus name believes there is any value in the water itself. However let's note that after Cornelius and his household were baptized with the Spirit Peter commanded, not recommended but commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord and they obeyed.
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It is the word of God that gives birth and the Spirit that gives life and produces sanctification. Jesus said "when He comes" he will reprove the world. (H.G.)(John 16)
There are many different things and functions and works in the bible. It is disappointing to see Christians minimize some of them or get rid of the completely. One thing in the bible you will NEVER EVER see is anyone questioning whether or not they need to be baptized for salvation or putting it off for a week or so. This western mindset that questions everything and looks for loopholes is anti God
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Water Baptism is a witness of our submission and identifies with the one whom we serve. Under the old covenant water baptism was used to "wash" away impurities, but under the new covenant, its a witness to our faith.
I've asked for years for scriptures from the non Apostolics for proof that water baptism is just a witness of our submission and they never provice one...you got one?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Right. No mention of them being baptised in Jesus Name. It was John's baptism unto repentence.
Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
As you can see, John's baptism wasn't in Jesus Name.
No it was not Johns baptism. Mizpeh is asking about Jesus and his disciples baptising others.
John's baptism signified they were disciples of John. See Acts 19. This was Jesus and His disciples baptizing others
Joh 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Do you think John said anything when he baptized or did they just confess their sins? Did John baptize in his own name?
What makes you think Jesus baptism is the same as John's?
In Acts 19, the disciples had never heard of Jesus.
I don't think John said anything, no. Scripture never indicates that anything was said by him at all.
And I don't think baptism in Jesus name is the same as John's. That was my point. If it were the same, people wouldn't have had to be rebaptized.
And if those disciples had been baptized by John but never heard of Jesus, then they weren't listening to John preach, cause all John preached about was the One to come. That was his entire purpose on earth as the forerunner of Jesus Christ.
In addition, that verse never indicates that those disciples never heard of Jesus. How could they have been disciples???
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I think a question to ask is was Elizabeth saved according to new testament conditions ?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
Have been busy lately , so could not read everything. But I did read Dan's elucidation on the term GIVEN in John 7:39.
The issue in John 7 regarded a connection with the work of the cross and the baptism of the Spirit. And unless someone responded to my words of Peter's sermon in Acts 2, I have yet to see someone explain that connection. Peter said the same thing John 7:39 said essentially. Peter said the reaosn the Spirit weas poured out as it was in Acts 2 WAS DUE TO THE LORD BEING EXALTED AND SHEDDING IT FORTH AS A RESULT.
How can we say the Spirit baptism before the cross, before Jesus was glorified and exalted to shed it forth, was the same as after the cross????
If we remove the work of the cross from the UNIQUENESS of Spirit baptism after the Cross compared to before it's work, the cross is unnecessary for new birth! Spirit baptism AFTER the cross was part of NEW BIRTH. That did not occur before the cross. Nobody was born again until the cross occurred in which Christ made the atonement once and for all, and we could identify with his death.
We cnanot be found negating the work of the cross and the uniqueness of Spirit Baptism directly resulting from that work.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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