Tithing…Is it a command?

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Tithing is not a NT concept, but giving was. Giving to fellow brothers and sisters. Giving to help the needs of those in ministry. But not once is a specific amount mentioned, nor a mandatory command given either.

If we love one another, we will give as the Lord has blessed us.

Those who support the tithe doctrine can't back it up in the NT. They must resort to the OT in order to prop it up, and as Rudy has said, where do we have any record that Jesus tithed? Or Paul?

But we do find Paul teaching on giving as the Lord has blessed us. Giving is a NT concept, but tithing is not.

We must support those in ministry, to bless, encourage and support them as they labor in the gospel. We need to support our fellow brothers and sisters in need. We need to give. Whether you find you want to follow the 10% concept as a baseline amount to give, not a problem. Just don't make tithing part of the salvation message.

Tithing is a form of giving.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by James_Thomas

- Hebrews 7 -

“And verily THEY THAT ARE OF THE SONS OF LEVI, who receive the office of the priesthood, HAVE A COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHES OF THE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LAW that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham” Hebrews 7:5

The Levite priesthood was given a commandment, in Mount Sinai (See Lev. 27:34), “to take Tithes according to the law” (See Hebrews 7:5); however, “Christ is the end of the Law” (See Romans 10:4).

“IF THEREFORE PERFECTION WERE BY THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD, (for under it the people received the law), WHAT FURTHER NEED WAS THERE THAT ANOTHER PRIEST SHOULD RISE AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC, and not be called after the order of Aaron? FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, THERE IS MADE OF NECESSITY, A CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW” Hebrews 7:11-12

As a result of the above scripture the commandment to support the Levite priesthood has been canceled completely and put away because of its weakness and unprofitableness, because we are Born Again in Christ, and are a Royal Priesthood, and now all can enter into the Holy of Holies, not just one man alone, once a year (See Hebrews 9:7-9):

“FOR THERE IS VERILY A DISANNULLING OF THE COMMANDMENT GOING BEFORE FOR THE WEAKNESS AND UNPROFITABLENESS THEREOF” Hebrews 7:18

For further clarification of this scripture, compare with Hebrews 7:5 above.

Webster defines the word “Disannul-ling” as “to cancel-completely and destroy”. Strong defines the original Greek word “ath-et‘-ay-sis” as “put- away”.

In other words, Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that “the commandment for the Levite Priesthood to take Tithes has been completely canceled and put away because of its weakness and unprofitableness thereof!”

And now we have the Perfect Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, not the imperfect Mosaic Law of Sin and Death (See Rom.8:2)!

Explain how the above works with 1st Corinthians 9:12-13?

Why is Paul still using the priesthood as an example for freewill giving of a congregation?

[peter83]

Sure there is not tithing in the new testament, in Jerusalem they had all in common ( which i dont want to say that we have to follow).And nobody of them was lacking something. I nenver listen a preacher quote from that verse.
For ministers Paul said :
"14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. "
But also :
"7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat"

Why so many people quote verses about payment but nobody follows the example of Paul?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Rudy

LOL oh this silly discussion on tithing money. It's odd that no one brings up the fact that Yeshua didn't receive tithes directly. Or did he pay tithes (unless he grew a garden).

Everyone did not tithe under the law as commonly believed.

Who is yeshua?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by peter83

Sure there is not tithing in the new testament, in Jerusalem they had all in common ( which i dont want to say that we have to follow).And nobody of them was lacking something. I nenver listen a preacher quote from that verse.
For ministers Paul said :
"14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. "
But also :
"7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat"

Why so many people quote verses about payment but nobody follows the example of Paul?

Jerusalem church was the only communal church. We see no other congregation or mention anywhere of a community purse in the other epistles. Nothing of turning everything over to "apostles" to be handed back to anyone as they have "need." Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in 40 years. Jeremiah purchased land prior to the Babylonians destroying Jerusalem in 587 BC. So, the fledgling Jerusalem church SOLD lands to show that they wouldn't be returning to plant vineyards in fields. Jeremiah 32:15 is Jeremiah in prison, in a war torn country, proving by his purchase that the remnant will return. Acts 4:37 tells us of another Levite purchasing land, but instead of getting a deed of sale, he gives it over to an Apostle. Doing the opposite of what Jeremiah had done. Showing the first century Judean that they would not be returning to Judea. But would be entering a city whose builder and maker is God. The Body of Christ, cut out of a mountain which would fill the world. Ministerial support is found in the New Testament, and not a community purse which you give 100% of your earnings to the leadership.

[Sister Alvear]

I have been blessed paying tithes all my life...

[SJC]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have been blessed paying tithes all my life...

I have been to, sister.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Jerusalem church was the only communal church. We see no other congregation or mention anywhere of a community purse in the other epistles. Nothing of turning everything over to "apostles" to be handed back to anyone as they have "need." Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in 40 years. Jeremiah purchased land prior to the Babylonians destroying Jerusalem in 587 BC. So, the fledgling Jerusalem church SOLD lands to show that they wouldn't be returning to plant vineyards in fields. Jeremiah 32:15 is Jeremiah in prison, in a war torn country, proving by his purchase that the remnant will return. Acts 4:37 tells us of another Levite purchasing land, but instead of getting a deed of sale, he gives it over to an Apostle. Doing the opposite of what Jeremiah had done. Showing the first century Judean that they would not be returning to Judea. But would be entering a city whose builder and maker is God. The Body of Christ, cut out of a mountain which would fill the world. Ministerial support is found in the New Testament, and not a community purse which you give 100% of your earnings to the leadership.

Although I believe their program of "distribution was made to every man as he had need" was exemplary and I do believe reiterated and exampled by Paul, nevertheless you have presented something I had never considered before. Namely the contrast between Jeremiah and the Jerusalem church, and one buying and the other selling real estate.

Very good, elder.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by peter83

Sure there is not tithing in the new testament, in Jerusalem they had all in common ( which i dont want to say that we have to follow).And nobody of them was lacking something. I nenver listen a preacher quote from that verse.
For ministers Paul said :
"14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. "
But also :
"7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat"

Why so many people quote verses about payment but nobody follows the example of Paul?

2 Corinthians 11:9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man:for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied:and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

In my experience I personally from the pew side of things have been on the receiving end. I have had pastors many times stick money in my pocket because they felt that I may be in need. I don't view pastors as money greedy men that are trying to take advantage of me.

It seems like many people have a poor taste in their mouth of church leadership. I hate to hear stories about hirelings who manipulate and abuse the people of God, but we can't let those experiences cause us to give up.

1 Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

Here Paul tells the Thessalonians to know them who labor and admonish them. I think the choice of the word "know" was a good choice. I understand that English is constantly changing, but the word know for us means to perceive or understand. We should not follow man blindly, but we should be sure for ourselves in what we are listening to. We all need God fearing elders in our lives and we should esteem them, but that doesn't mean being manipulated.

As a pastor myself, on occasion there will be a saint in the church that wants to somehow be a blessing to me. When I see it is from someone who is in need, it is burdensome to me. I don't want to see someone else do without so that I can have. I think this is where Paul was coming from, he did not want to be a burden on the Children of God for personal gain.

On the flip side we must also realize that our relationship with God is built upon faith. Sometimes people do things or give things in faith and God will sustain them in those cases. Our financial status does not give us a pass from walking by faith.

Something else to note is that the epistles where written to very young churches. I don't know the first pastor who preaches about finances to babes. Paul didn't want to lay a burden on anyone, but wanted focus on the majors. Money has no connection to the gospel, but servitude does.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

In my experience I personally from the pew side of things have been on the receiving end. I have had pastors many times stick money in my pocket because they felt that I may be in need. I don't view pastors as money greedy men that are trying to take advantage of me.

It seems like many people have a poor taste in their mouth of church leadership. I hate to hear stories about hirelings who manipulate and abuse the people of God, but we can't let those experiences cause us to give up.



Here Paul tells the Thessalonians to know them who labor and admonish them. I think the choice of the word "know" was a good choice. I understand that English is constantly changing, but the word know for us means to perceive or understand. We should not follow man blindly, but we should be sure for ourselves in what we are listening to. We all need God fearing elders in our lives and we should esteem them, but that doesn't mean being manipulated.

As a pastor myself, on occasion there will be a saint in the church that wants to somehow be a blessing to me. When I see it is from someone who is in need, it is burdensome to me. I don't want to see someone else do without so that I can have. I think this is where Paul was coming from, he did not want to be a burden on the Children of God for personal gain.

On the flip side we must also realize that our relationship with God is built upon faith. Sometimes people do things or give things in faith and God will sustain them in those cases. Our financial status does not give us a pass from walking by faith.

Something else to note is that the epistles where written to very young churches. I don't know the first pastor who preaches about finances to babes. Paul didn't want to lay a burden on anyone, but wanted focus on the majors. Money has no connection to the gospel, but servitude does.

Thank you.
I dont have a bad experience my self .In the church that i attend Pastors work their own jobs and money that comes in the church are used only for the church, minisrty ,planting churches etc.
I dont have a problem if a pastor get payment , but when i listen about churches that asks for tithes or pastors live from the church i just feel strange.
God bless you!