Mondanism

[peter83]

Mondanism not the same with Mondalism was a christian movement of the 2nd century.
I want post it just because of history.
I hope all we know that history is writen by the winners, Therefor is not easy to have an objective view of history.
Also keep in mind that from greek litteratur we only have in our hands the 2% of all the ancient writings. Ant those texts are in existence today are copies of copies . Those copies was work of monks whose responsibility was to right and wewrite the ancient copies of the original texts.
(That is why we see some similarities of ancient pagan "gods" like Mithras with Jesus.the myth about Mithras was before Christ ,but the informations we get today comes from texts aroun 3 centuries after Jesus lived.)
Then it is by faith we believe ever Socrates existed or if he does , that he realy said and teach all those things. Because he did not write anything and all we know comes from his disciplines who livied 300 BC but the copies of them texts are from 300 AC!
By faith we believe what we know about Pythagoras 580 BC and his biography was complete 300 AC. And so on...

Now for Mondanism i will try to put the "big" informations like are in greek Wikipedis because contains aome information that comes from "greek orthodox church hitory"

1) the name comes from theis leader :Mondanos, thay wass also called "new Prophesy" movement .
2)They had the perception that the prophecies of Montanists exceeded and fulfilled the doctrines proclaimed by the Apostles.
3)Encouraging ecstatic prophecy and speaking in tongues, as opposed to the more serious and disciplined approach to theology that prevailed since Orthodoxy.

4)The view that Christians who declines from Grace could not atone, unlike the Orthodox teaching that repentance can lead to the restoration of the sinner in the Church.
5)That the prophets of Montanism not speak as messengers of God with "so and so says the Lord", but rather describes itself as held by God, and talk as if it is He: "I am the Father, the Word, and the Paraclete" said Montanus (Didymus, On the Trinity)
6)In greater emphasis on avoiding sin, ecclesiastical discipline and apocalyptic living than what the Orthodox Church. Also in more emphasis on chastity, including second marriage ban.
7)Jerome and other church leaders claimed that the Montanists believed that the Trinity consists of only one person, such as ie. Sabellianism, unlike the Orthodox view that the Trinity is one God in three hypostases. Indeed Montanists were approaching the Montalismo (Savellianismo) while others were closer to the Trinitarian doctrine. Stated that montalistes Montanists baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and not in the name of the Trinity. Most later Montanists was montalistes.

8) Some people said that they was celebrating Eucharist with bread and cheese.

Of course i do not say that all of that were truth ,because we know those things are said by the greek orthodox fathers. bat we cas see how a movement who baptized in Jesus name, spoke in tongues etc was persecuted and ridiculed from the Catholic church (those time catholics and orthodoxs was one).
But historians believe and there are some evidences that this movement continuous to exists utntil 8-9 AC Centuries!
Woth to say that Tertullian has also entered Mondanism!

[KeptByTheWord]

Very interesting information. I am thinking about your comment that it was the "winners who wrote history". That is noteworthy to consider.

But it does seem while they held some views consistent with the concept of modalism, but that other views were very extreme, such as chastity. Does that mean they banned marriage?

And also that their prophecies exceeded that of the apostles, also a very extreme view.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Very interesting information. I am thinking about your comment that it was the "winners who wrote history". That is noteworthy to consider.

But it does seem while they held some views consistent with the concept of modalism, but that other views were very extreme, such as chastity. Does that mean they banned marriage?

And also that their prophecies exceeded that of the apostles, also a very extreme view.

I dont say that because they were speaking in tongues and baptize in Jesus name was all correct.
Clearly their practices were heretics .But in the end who knows if all that informations fall really over all of them?
For example today if you ask a greek orthodox christian about pentecostals ,sure he will tell you some truths but he will also condemn them and maby equate them with all the named pentecostal branches "charismatics, benny, holy drunkards" and so on.
And if you give him some authority he will enter that informations in history .That is why i say that "the winners make the history"
We know about how many millions were killed by the Holy Inquisition ,we know were "heretics" we dont really know who was!
Anyway ...i spoke too much! it was just for the history.

[RachelRose]

Originally Posted by peter83

Mondanism not the same with Mondalism was a christian movement of the 2nd century.
I want post it just because of history.
I hope all we know that history is writen by the winners, Therefor is not easy to have an objective view of history.
Also keep in mind that from greek litteratur we only have in our hands the 2% of all the ancient writings. Ant those texts are in existence today are copies of copies . Those copies was work of monks whose responsibility was to right and wewrite the ancient copies of the original texts.
(That is why we see some similarities of ancient pagan "gods" like Mithras with Jesus.the myth about Mithras was before Christ ,but the informations we get today comes from texts aroun 3 centuries after Jesus lived.)
Then it is by faith we believe ever Socrates existed or if he does , that he realy said and teach all those things. Because he did not write anything and all we know comes from his disciplines who livied 300 BC but the copies of them texts are from 300 AC!
By faith we believe what we know about Pythagoras 580 BC and his biography was complete 300 AC. And so on...

Now for Mondanism i will try to put the "big" informations like are in greek Wikipedis because contains aome information that comes from "greek orthodox church hitory"

1) the name comes from theis leader :Mondanos, thay wass also called "new Prophesy" movement .
2)They had the perception that the prophecies of Montanists exceeded and fulfilled the doctrines proclaimed by the Apostles.
3)Encouraging ecstatic prophecy and speaking in tongues, as opposed to the more serious and disciplined approach to theology that prevailed since Orthodoxy.

4)The view that Christians who declines from Grace could not atone, unlike the Orthodox teaching that repentance can lead to the restoration of the sinner in the Church.
5)That the prophets of Montanism not speak as messengers of God with "so and so says the Lord", but rather describes itself as held by God, and talk as if it is He: "I am the Father, the Word, and the Paraclete" said Montanus (Didymus, On the Trinity)
6)In greater emphasis on avoiding sin, ecclesiastical discipline and apocalyptic living than what the Orthodox Church. Also in more emphasis on chastity, including second marriage ban.
7)Jerome and other church leaders claimed that the Montanists believed that the Trinity consists of only one person, such as ie. Sabellianism, unlike the Orthodox view that the Trinity is one God in three hypostases. Indeed Montanists were approaching the Montalismo (Savellianismo) while others were closer to the Trinitarian doctrine. Stated that montalistes Montanists baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and not in the name of the Trinity. Most later Montanists was montalistes.

8) Some people said that they was celebrating Eucharist with bread and cheese.

Of course i do not say that all of that were truth ,because we know those things are said by the greek orthodox fathers. bat we cas see how a movement who baptized in Jesus name, spoke in tongues etc was persecuted and ridiculed from the Catholic church (those time catholics and orthodoxs was one).
But historians believe and there are some evidences that this movement continuous to exists utntil 8-9 AC Centuries!
Woth to say that Tertullian has also entered Mondanism!

I enjoy this sort of study however now I am thinking about "Hebrew Roots." How do we answer the challenges of the "Hellenized Jesus?" Why are those Jews so sure the NT was changed to make a rabbi a super hero?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by RachelRose

I enjoy this sort of study however now I am thinking about "Hebrew Roots." How do we answer the challenges of the "Hellenized Jesus?" Why are those Jews so sure the NT was changed to make a rabbi a super hero?

Hebrew Roots is NOT Christian! You should not listen to them and no there in not any challenge! The Word of God has the answer:
1 Tim:1: 4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith

2 Tim.2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Titus.3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 1
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.