The Bible is the word of God

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yes. They are selling themselves short. They are a believer. But so what. they are so much more than that. This is proven because the Devils are believers too.

One ought to be careful declaring themselves less than God declares them.

Are you only just a believer too?

Seriously?

You're splitting hairs way too much, bro. Come on.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by shazeep

of course not, they have not the first clue, and have absolutely no desire to get the first clue, and satan is not, ever, going to flee by being asked nicely. satan needs a stronghold @ any place called "Apostolic Friends," and this is simply what we are witnessing.

wadr to all, and my apologies, as this is not my place, to have to be put in the position to have to do this, and shame, shame, shame, on those whose domain this is, imo.

these do not represent the OP that i learned under, full of wonderful, caring, humble people, who would never suggest that anyone they have never met might be "lost," as the whores who run rampant here delight in doing daily.

And who, of course, breeze through here briefly, until they get a load of the Apostasy rampant here, and then do the sensible thing, which is to never come back.

If you want a forum that represents the OP you know and love, i suggest you clean house, and when someone demonstrates such an obvious lack of Witnesses, and then still proceeds to act out like a spoiled little brat, you exercise your options a bit more conscientiously.


wadr. good evening to all.

Shaz was kicking at the pricks, because he rejected the work of the cross.

Phil. 3:18-19
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

He believes that anyone can be saved just by believing, and that the work of the cross is not necessary in their lives.

His mantra scripture was the Nehushtan found in II Kings 18:4

3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

The serpent on the pole once was used to save and heal Israel, but when they turned it into an idol, and began burning incense to it, Hezekiah burnt the serpent on the pole, and called it Nehushtan.

Shaz reasoned that since the journey of a believer can be demonstrated in the walk of the children of Israel out of Egypt, this somehow means that the cross is no longer effective.

Where his reasoning erred, (and Bro. Blume and I endeavored to show him this), was that the people had made the serpent on a pole (or the symbol of the cross), into an idol, and began to worship it, and that idol worship was what God condemned, not the serpent on the pole, and not the cross.

We do not glory in the cross itself, but in the work that the cross wrought for us. The cross alone holds no power, but it is what happened at the cross that matters.

However, he could not be convinced otherwise, and this became quite obvious, as he chose to lash out, particularly at me with awful words, because his "concept" had been proven wrong, and he was furious, and would not accept it.

Just a concise explanation for anyone who may be wondering what took place in these threads.

[mfblume]

One man whom I knew believed the work of the cross did not fully resolve the issue of sin, and events decades after the cross actually put an end to sin. I informed him that was seriously wrong, since the cross paid the full price for sin. He refused to believe. So we actually disfellowshiped over it. I think the issue is THAT serious.

But he also accused me of worshiping a criss-cross piece of wood. I said no, it's WHAT WAS DONE with the cross. The DEATH is what remitted our sins, because Jesus took our sins and experienced the death penalty that OUR sins deserved. He died in our places making it as though we actually died in the sight of God to pay for our sins. And His resurrection from the dead led to His ascension into heaven where he made atonement like the high priest entering the holiest of holies to atone for Israel. That crossed shaped couple of boards is not the issue. It's His death, burial and resurrection. If we had the actual cross he died on and worshipped it as a relic, that would be the problem the Israelites had in worshipping the serpent on the pole. The cross had its purpose like the serpent on the pole. But it's not the issue itself any more. He died once. No more. He lives forevermore. It's the death that led to the resurrection that's the issue. Especially the Atonement afterward. Wearing a cross is futile, too.

He couldn't grasp that, I guess. So he insisted I worship two beams of wood. lol

Anyway, that's what happened here, too. The difference is that the issue here included the mistaken notion that we were FALSELY accused of thinking baptism in water and going through the motions of confession saves people. That is totally wrong. I repeated it over and over again that baptism and confession without genuine faith in our hearts that only God can see is what makes anything else meaningful. But like my brother with whom I disfellowshipped, my clarification was ignored and the fabrications continued to go forth that we believe rituals without faith save a person.

Whatever...

Basically, these spirits despise the work of the cross, and are its enemies.

[KeptByTheWord]

Amen. So sad to hear that about your friend. There are those who are willing to avoid the work of the cross by trying to subvert what Jesus did at Calvary AND what is required of us to be a part of that work on Calvary.... Just like Peter rejected the idea of the death of Jesus, and Jesus had to rebuke him and call him Satan (a point you brought out in another thread), our flesh does not like the idea of the necessity of the death, and work of the cross either.

Another thing we've noticed is that when someone finds a little known scripture, and twists it to somehow fit the concept they believe, it is nigh to impossible to convince them otherwise. They like the notion that they have some special knowledge or insight that you don't.

And worshiping the cross is wrong, absolutely. There is no power in the cross, i.e. the construction of wood and nails... but the power is in what happened that day, and what happened 3 days later.