Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes--all of it, even the part you will not read, and refuse to answer.

Excuse me? Which part will I not read? What question have I refused to answer?

You know, I was once told "there are no dumb questions." That, however, is a lie...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

then i invite you to explain how the Samaritan is accepted, when he would not have agreed with you here.

Was the Samaritan a real person? And who said he was accepted?

You really need some basic bible study 101. You can start by learning the meaning, symptoms, and consequences of pride...

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Of course you can, just like you said belief has little transformative power.

well, i did not say that, it was a quote. The Priest in the Good Samaritan parable might be an illustration. Or, how many Muslims have actually gone to hell because of your declarations? Let's agree that it is "none." The belief that you have found something in Scripture that condemns them--while ignoring the Scriptures that might say otherwise--notwithstanding.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Excuse me? Which part will I not read? What question have I refused to answer?

You know, I was once told "there are no dumb questions." That, however, is a lie...

my fault, perhaps. I had replied to your prior post, a couple of days ago, and you did not respond. So i referred to that. But really, even though i just asked it of Aquila, i am not looking for an answer; it is a rhetorical question, and the point is that the Good Samaritan is allowed to say "i think you are all full of yourselves, and don't have a clue," and even "if you follow Acts 2:38, then i am taking it out of my dogma, because i don't like you" (or whatever) and is still accepted by God, regardless of what you or i believe.

Equally pointed, for some Pentecostals, is the parable of the vineyard owner with two sons. The First Son is accepted, while the Second is not. These are parables that challenge one's beliefs, and illuminate that your beliefs will not save you. The world does not need to become Pentecostal to be saved; although Pentecostals may be saved...like prolly about 4 of you
a little pent humor there for ya.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Was the Samaritan a real person? And who said he was accepted?

You really need some basic bible study 101. You can start by learning the meaning, symptoms, and consequences of pride...

C'mon, you really want to go there, you think? was the Samaritan a real person? you are asking me this? i have no idea. It is a Scriptural parable that imparts knowledge. Christ seems to indicate that he was real; and it is Christ Who says that he was accepted:

"Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?" 37He said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

and my position is that it is pride that might cause one to imagine "All _______ are lost," Esaias. If i need some basic 101, or have somehow twisted this--let alone Job, who i only ever mentioned--then it remains to be seen, you have to admit. Right now it is just another empty declaration. So i am lost now, too?

you might ask yourself at what point it becomes in your best interest to examine the contortions you are going through, to avoid admitting a point because identifying with it provokes some cognitive dissonance. Perhaps.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i did not say that, it was a quote. The Priest in the Good Samaritan parable might be an illustration. Or, how many Muslims have actually gone to hell because of your declarations? Let's agree that it is "none." The belief that you have found something in Scripture that condemns them--while ignoring the Scriptures that might say otherwise--notwithstanding.

Show us where people seeking salvation by works will be saved.

The priest was under law not faith and belief.

Nobody condemned them. They are already condemned since they don't believe.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Show us where people seeking salvation by works will be saved.

The priest was under law not faith and belief.

Nobody condemned them. They are already condemned since they don't believe.

What you mean is, they are already condemned since they don't believe what you believe. And you are not interested in any Scripture that argues the point. In the same way, regardless of what their dogma is, whatever it was the Samaritan believed, it must not have been salvation by his good deeds as far as God is concerned, or he would not be held up as an example.

The First Son is even more emphatic, in declaring what he does not "believe." "I don't believe that i will go and work in the field, thank you" which makes what you believe no less dispensable, and does not reduce the power of Acts 2:38 for you, in the least. When you apply your dogma to yourself, it will be reflected in your heart, that is what will come out of your mouth, and "They are already condemned" is strictly your unsupported and disputed opinion. Disputed by Scripture, may would argue. So see when you might be fighting God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

What you mean is, they are already condemned since they don't believe what you believe.

no that is not what I mean and it shows your dishonesty. You make it sound like we cannot use Christ's words objectively and apply them to any situation to know if we can be saved or not. It depends on your Feelygood "as long at they're honest they can't be lost" error. That means truth is a mystery that we can never know.

And you are not interested in any Scripture that argues the point.

Wow. You are putting out the most convoluted writing I've seen yet. No one can talk to you once you get something in your head. That's vile.

Of course I'm interested in scripture that argues the point. Show me scripture where one is saved by works without every having believed what the bible says about the cross that makes the cross pointless in one's soul and heart. Show me the belief Christ speaks about is not the faith in the cross for salvation.

In the same way, regardless of what their dogma is, whatever it was the Samaritan believed, it must not have been salvation by his good deeds as far as God is concerned, or he would not be held up as an example.

The Samaritan had nothing to do with Salvation by deeds or not. One is not saved by loving one's neighbor and loving God. One is saved by faith in the works of the cross to deal with sins. The parable of the Samaritan is truth to live by after one is already saved.

The First Son is even more emphatic, in declaring what he does not "believe." "I don't believe that i will go and work in the field, thank you" which makes what you believe no less dispensable, and does not reduce the power of Acts 2:38 for you, in the least.

You are not even making sense in that paragraph. "More emphatic" toward what understanding?

"Belief" in the way you use it here is as far from the point at hand as it can get. So you are not making anything clear about your user of the parable. Maybe that's a ploy at showing how scripture cannot be fully understood and that we can never know who is saved since nothing specific can be obtained from the word. Just the feelgood doctrine that one only need be sincere with no voice of clarity from the word showing people can be sincerely wrong.

Belief toward salvation is faith in what the word stated about Christ's death and resurrection counting as us for what alone saves us, knowing that nothing else can save whatsoever. That's the belief Jesus spoke about in John 3. You've lowered it to a works issue implying one can believe the cross doesn't save and then later being regarded as saved by faith without that faith ever having been present. The truth is that parable is to show religious people who say one thing not believing what they say at all.

When you apply your dogma to yourself, it will be reflected in your heart, that is what will come out of your mouth, and "They are already condemned" is strictly your unsupported and disputed opinion. Disputed by Scripture, may would argue. So see when you might be fighting God.

Again does anybody know what this guy is sayng here? Just confusion making anything he wants out of plain points in the word.

(SHUDDER)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

my fault, perhaps. I had replied to your prior post, a couple of days ago, and you did not respond. So i referred to that. But really, even though i just asked it of Aquila, i am not looking for an answer; it is a rhetorical question, and the point is that the Good Samaritan is allowed to say "i think you are all full of yourselves, and don't have a clue," and even "if you follow Acts 2:38, then i am taking it out of my dogma, because i don't like you" (or whatever) and is still accepted by God, regardless of what you or i believe.

Equally pointed, for some Pentecostals, is the parable of the vineyard owner with two sons. The First Son is accepted, while the Second is not. These are parables that challenge one's beliefs, and illuminate that your beliefs will not save you. The world does not need to become Pentecostal to be saved; although Pentecostals may be saved...like prolly about 4 of you
a little pent humor there for ya.

Actually your beliefs are hardly the summa cum laude of the evaporative aura emanating from the silence of the lambs. Perhaps when you grow up and discover "what? Who, Me?" then you can pat yourself on the back and sleep well at night. Your nightmares might subside, but Kosovo is still smoking and nobody's getting a buzz off it except maybe Putin. And they all packed up and they moved to Beverly...Hills, that is...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually your beliefs are hardly the summa cum laude of the evaporative aura emanating from the silence of the lambs. Perhaps when you grow up and discover "what? Who, Me?" then you can pat yourself on the back and sleep well at night. Your nightmares might subside, but Kosovo is still smoking and nobody's getting a buzz off it except maybe Putin. And they all packed up and they moved to Beverly...Hills, that is...

Now THAT makes much more sense than the Muslim saved explanation. Lol