Why I Am A Futurist - Page 14

mfblume · #**131** 02-02-2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brash? I'm not being brash. Least I don't feel brash lol.

You sure sound like it, accusing me of denying resurrection when you know that is not true. Bad form.

Quote:

I'm saying that when you say "the kingdom will never be physical" that it sure seems to me like a denial of the resurrection.

How? Physical resurrection is not the kingdom. Obviously your view of kingdom is different than I've ever heard. how does a physical resurrection imply a physical kingdom?

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I know you believe in resurrection, but I think you are making statements which contradict that. Looks inconsistent to me.

How?

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Did not mean to sound rude or gruff or whatever. Texting from phone.

Thanks for the clarification.

But we are in the kingdom now, and it';s not physical. We're physical beings, though. So why would the kingdom become physical just because we will get immortal physical bodies after having mortal physical bodies where there was no physical kingdom?

Michael The Disciple · #**132** 02-02-2015, 06:18 PM

Here is some more on how the kingdom is on two levels.

Level 1. Present

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15

Here we have received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION .

And yet here:

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:21-23

We see that at the same time the groaning creation is set free THEN WE RECEIVE ADOPTION......THE RESURRECTION!

Then we will be in all actuality the CHILDREN OF GOD!

Note vs 23 says plainly we are WAITING FOR the adoption.

In other words the adoption is present through the firstfruits of the Spirit.....but FUTURE AS TO THE RESURRECTION!

Michael The Disciple · #**133** 02-02-2015, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You sure sound like it, accusing me of denying resurrection when you know that is not true. Bad form.

How? Physical resurrection is not the kingdom. Obviously your view of kingdom is different than I've ever heard. how does a physical resurrection imply a physical kingdom?

How?

At the same time as the resurrection the groaning creation will also be set free from its bondage. We will needs be able to act within it to help restore it to its original state.

Thats why Paul said:

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1 Cor 6:1-2

Its all part of the plan of YHWH.

mfblume · #**134** 02-02-2015, 06:38 PM

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;1355921]

Quote:

At the same time as the resurrection the groaning creation will also be set free from its bondage. We will needs be able to act within it to help restore it to its original state.

Thats why Paul said:

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 1 Cor 6:1-2

Its all part of the plan of YHWH.

I agree with that. But none of that implies a physical kingdom.

Obviously we are speaking past each other about the actual "kingdom".

When I say it will never be a physical kingdom I do not mean it will never affect the physical realm. We see it affect the physical now when we see healing, etc. But by physical kingdom I refer to a palace or some actual physical city that is THE kingdom, as we see in the white house or the Parliament Hill or Buckingham Palace. That is referring to the kingdom itself, not what it "affects".

What do you mean when you say physical kingdom?

mfblume · #**135** 02-02-2015, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here is some more on how the kingdom is on two levels.

Level 1. Present

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom 8:15

Here we have received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION .

And yet here:

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:21-23

We see that at the same time the groaning creation is set free THEN WE RECEIVE ADOPTION......THE RESURRECTION!

Then we will be in all actuality the CHILDREN OF GOD!

Note vs 23 says plainly we are WAITING FOR the adoption.

In other words the adoption is present through the firstfruits of the Spirit.....but FUTURE AS TO THE RESURRECTION!

None of that is kingdom to me at all. It's just resurrection. Again, you are reading something into the term "kingdom" I am unaware of.

mfblume · #**136** 02-02-2015, 06:45 PM

The kingdom affects the physical already if that is what you think about a physical kingdom. Jesus still said you cannot see it when it comes, all the while it affected the physical. He meant the kingdom itself is not physical, not what it affects. So, if you're thinking a physical kingdom is a kingdom that affects the physical realm, that is already true now.

Cometh not with observation. As a visible, earthly monarchy, like that of David.

Is within you. A kingdom that has its throne in the heart, on which Christ, the King, sits. It has to be formed by yielding our hearts to Christ.

Michael The Disciple · #**137** 02-02-2015, 06:54 PM

I am not going to argue about the words "physical kingdom". I will contend for the fact God has a plan to restore the Earth. He himself is going to come again gather the elect, destroy sinners, and start all over with his saints as kings and priests on the Earth.

Just so you will know what I am contending for.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. REV 11:15-18

THIS IS WHY I AM A "FUTURIST".

good samaritan · #**138** 02-02-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Maybe instead of saying physical kingdom it is more correct to say earthly kingdom?

Michael The Disciple · #**139** 02-02-2015, 07:03 PM

And BTW this is yet ANOTHER case where the coming of Jesus is directly linked to judgment.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 11:15-18

Michael The Disciple · #**140** 02-02-2015, 07:12 PM

Another EXCELLENT point as to whether or not we are IN THE KINGDOM in its future heavenly realm was brought up by Esaias.

Here it is again. This shows VERY CLEARLY we are yet to enter the Kingdom in its heavenly realm.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Cor. 15:50-52

This is all about entering THE KINGDOM.

The only way we enter the kingdom today is through receiving the Holy Ghost as its FIRSTFRUITS OR EARNEST OR DOWN PAYMENT.

There is obviously a FUTURE KINGDOM to come. So I guess "futurism" isn't so ridiculous after all!