Tithing…Is it a command?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I like many of your suggestions. I do believe that any pastors making a change in church operations of an already established church will have to walk softly in how they make changes. Churches have many tithers who you don't want to offend and when you cross people's theology it can become heated. I will hold a middle of the road standpoint by not preaching tithing as commandment, but a form of stewardship in our giving and stand against marginalizing people because of dollar amounts.

We must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. There still needs to be a focus on people's stewardship in giving and if we make people feel God doesn't care it may be a grave mistake. I don't want to become a social network without the Spirit of God. I believe we should be able to distinguish between saints and sinners. We must press the point of being Spirit led in all parts of our lives.

I love to hear testimonies of hundreds getting saved in church services, but when you return a year later and none are there. Or maybe a year later they live just as sinful a life as they did before their conversion. I don't to fail people by being to hard or to soft. I feel like we need to stay in the word, but it will sometimes cause conviction.

I don't want to see how many rules I can shave off in order to keep people at church. Our motives can be bad either way. There have been good well intentioned tithe preachers and bad, but there have been good and bad anti-tithe preachers. I don't just want to know the book(Bible), but I want to know the author(God).

Amen, I know, if tithing is not an issue, the Lord will bless your work for Him. We all must try to get as close as we can to the original to declare ourselves part of the original. It can change to free will giving by simply never mentioning tithing again. No apologies needed. If folks ask why you dont enforce it, just let them know there is not enough evidence to make it a church issue. That position, these days, is very acceptable to average folks. Your church will become a breath of fresh air compared to the ones in your area that "badger" folks about $ whenever they walk through the door. I personally, am looking for a oneness church to attend in my area that thinks like you do. I will commit a few hundred bucks a month and a ton of outreach to the cause. I dont want a position, just a safe place to bring souls. I wish you were in this area.

[good samaritan]

Thanks for the kind words Sean. I will keep you in my prayers that God will lead you to a good Church family. I appreciate your love for God's word.

[Rudy]

As the smoke clears.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by shag

Hold up a minute brethren!

Let's just all do our best to try not to offend each other through what we post, and try not to be easily offended by somebody else's posts, and get back to discussing scripture in regards to tithing. Let brotherly love continue...

At the same time let's work thru this concerning tithes, if it's right or not to teach in the new testament, and if it is taught, how exactly it is to be taught.

Flame, you said you were going to go ahead and teach tithing from now on, my question to you is how are you going to teach it based off of scripture? Based off of Scripture, how are you going to teach who all in this new covenant Kingdom "royal priesthood" is the payee, who all in this "priesthood" is allowed to receive it, is it an "obligatory principle" or is it permissable not to pay or receive, and can it be paid or received in labor, material things, food etc instead of money, and who all has the right to decide that? Is the yr of jubilee a foreshadow if taking a yr off tithing in the nt?
If your going to teach it, how are you going to break all that down, and do you have the authority?

Jason said it the other day, and this is the bottom line, "When we exceed the authority and teaching of scripture then everything becomes subjective."

Jason, I appreciate and greatly respect your efforts to work big hours, as you have in the past, while now also pastoring. May God reward you greatly in this life and the one to come for your driven dedication.

Let's all hang in here, and scripturally defend our convictions concerning the tithe...nobody run off!

Sean, chill a little. The Bible does say speak evil of no man. It's hard to win somebody to your cause if they're offended.

Great post.

And thank you for the kind words. I can assure you I do not deserve them but appreciate it nonetheless.

[KeptByTheWord]

I have been reading in Deuteronomy. A great book to read about the many things that God wanted the Israelites to understand in how to live, and love your neighbor. I came across this passage on tithing:

Duet. 14:22-29
22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

I would like to point out some things in this passage for discussion:

1. The Israelite in vs. 23 was instructed to "eat of the tithe" himself, and his family before the Lord, rejoicing, him and his household while he ate, including the Levite in their celebration.

2. The tithe was brought once every three years. vs. 28

3. Every three years when the tithe was brought, the Israelite would eat of his own tithe, sharing with the Levite, the stranger, fatherless, and widow, so that the Lord would bless him.

4. In verses 24-26... please note an interesting thing. If the Israelite could not travel with his abundance of his third year tithe, he could sell his tithe, take the money, and buy "WHATEVER HIS SOUL LUSTETH FOR" ... even wine or strong drink (!!!), eat or drink it before the Lord, both he and his household, and the Levite.

I would like comments on this as to how this tithing commandment could possibly be in any way similar to how tithing is taught today.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I have been reading in Deuteronomy. A great book to read about the many things that God wanted the Israelites to understand in how to live, and love your neighbor. I came across this passage on tithing:

Duet. 14:22-29
22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

I would like to point out some things in this passage for discussion:

1. The Israelite in vs. 23 was instructed to "eat of the tithe" himself, and his family before the Lord, rejoicing, him and his household while he ate, including the Levite in their celebration.

2. The tithe was brought once every three years. vs. 28

3. Every three years when the tithe was brought, the Israelite would eat of his own tithe, sharing with the Levite, the stranger, fatherless, and widow, so that the Lord would bless him.

4. In verses 24-26... please note an interesting thing. If the Israelite could not travel with his abundance of his third year tithe, he could sell his tithe, take the money, and buy "WHATEVER HIS SOUL LUSTETH FOR" ... even wine or strong drink (!!!), eat or drink it before the Lord, both he and his household, and the Levite.

I would like comments on this as to how this tithing commandment could possibly be in any way similar to how tithing is taught today.

Finally someone is actually doing some reading in the scripture, instead of listening to the vocalizing of the few, that teach and preach only what they have been taught.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

After listening to both sides and much thought. I have decided that I will teach tithing from the viewpoint of a historical example of giving in the law. Not condemning those who do not do it, but encouraging people to be prayerful and consider all scripture when supporting their local ministry. I think people do need to evaluate how they teach giving. For you not to make references to the tithe is to leave out scriptures, but for us to say that it is a New Testament command is wrong also.

I believe by taking this stance pastors will not discourage their already tithers, but also will be more scripturally correct. I have heard tithing taught and preached all my life and still most did not do it. I really think that my stance will not change people's attitude toward giving because it is a matter of the heart. This is another one of them blanket statements, but most who didn't tithe before aren't going to give even by being more precise in our teaching.

I have watched for years people who are part of a church buy new cars and have the best and Be stingy when it comes to giving. I think a lot of people are really thinking that by changing their stance, it will hurt the work. The tithers who attend our church will probably continue to tithe just because of personal convictions. I will also probably have to continue to rescue those who haven't learned good financial stewardship.

Also as for the references being made against ministers of the gospel. You should probably evaluate your stance. None of us lived in the first century church and I think scriptures give us an idea of what it was like, but I don't think any of us clearly know how everything operated. We need to stay with the scripture, but not go back in time and try to mimic a 2,000 year old culture.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things

Some of you can continue to make your blanket statements against the ministry, but you better stop and think that the gospel made it to you by one of those preachers. something to think about

Not to change the subject here, but are we not taking these two passages a little out of context and meaning? No where in the context of the two above verses does it define the heralder as what we term a preacher.
The gospel did and does not come to the individual by "the preacher" it come by children of God sharing the good news to friends, relatives and neighbors.

To prove this point, Paul did not say the gifts of God, (what many call the five fold ministry) in Ephesian were given to the body to preach the good news. They are given for the equipping of the saints, for their work (the saints) of ministry, and edifying the body of Christ. The work of the ministry is to the body, not the lost. That is the work of us the saints.

That being said, the eldership of the body, is due double honor, if they are fulfilling the work in the body. Including taking part if not all of their living from the body.

Jumping back to the tithes, or giving 10% as a biblical principle for all is not found in scripture. History tells us that this was mandated when the church came out of meeting in homes and began to build buildings.
I hate to say it, but it is a Catholic tradition started in 300 to 400 ad.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Finally someone is actually doing some reading in the scripture, instead of listening to the vocalizing of the few, that teach and preach only what they have been taught.

It is much easier to ride on other's coattails than to study for yourself, and understand the truths of the Word.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Not to change the subject here, but are we not taking these two passages a little out of context and meaning? No where in the context of the two above verses does it define the heralder as what we term a preacher.
The gospel did and does not come to the individual by "the preacher" it come by children of God sharing the good news to friends, relatives and neighbors.

To prove this point, Paul did not say the gifts of God, (what many call the five fold ministry) in Ephesian were given to the body to preach the good news. They are given for the equipping of the saints, for their work (the saints) of ministry, and edifying the body of Christ. The work of the ministry is to the body, not the lost. That is the work of us the saints.

That being said, the eldership of the body, is due double honor, if they are fulfilling the work in the body. Including taking part if not all of their living from the body.

Jumping back to the tithes, or giving 10% as a biblical principle for all is not found in scripture. History tells us that this was mandated when the church came out of meeting in homes and began to build buildings.
I hate to say it, but it is a Catholic tradition started in 300 to 400 ad.

All very true words.

Giving is a NT principle, but OT tithing is certainly not.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Not to change the subject here, but are we not taking these two passages a little out of context and meaning? No where in the context of the two above verses does it define the heralder as what we term a preacher.
The gospel did and does not come to the individual by "the preacher" it come by children of God sharing the good news to friends, relatives and neighbors.

To prove this point, Paul did not say the gifts of God, (what many call the five fold ministry) in Ephesian were given to the body to preach the good news. They are given for the equipping of the saints, for their work (the saints) of ministry, and edifying the body of Christ. The work of the ministry is to the body, not the lost. That is the work of us the saints.

That being said, the eldership of the body, is due double honor, if they are fulfilling the work in the body. Including taking part if not all of their living from the body.

Jumping back to the tithes, or giving 10% as a biblical principle for all is not found in scripture. History tells us that this was mandated when the church came out of meeting in homes and began to build buildings.
I hate to say it, but it is a Catholic tradition started in 300 to 400 ad.

Were all entitled to our opinions.