The Question No One Can Answer

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by n david

They do believe in an afterlife, the Jewish term for it is Olam Ha-Ba. And the Torah does speak of the afterlife.



Even the 13 Principles of Faith, which they faithfully recite every day after morning prayers in the synagogue, show belief in the afterlife:

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

2. The belief in G-d's absolute and unparalleled unity.

3. The belief in G-d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.

4. The belief in G-d's eternity.

5. The imperative to worship G-d exclusively and no foreign false gods.

6. The belief that G-d communicates with man through prophecy.

7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.

8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.

9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.

10. The belief in G-d's omniscience and providence.

11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.

12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.

13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.

No matter how you slice it and dice it, the Afterlife was not a prominent or dogmatic thought in the Old Testament, and it was never used as a tactic of Salvation. Bits and pieces seem to point to a different place beyond this one, but nothing was concrete or considered doctrine regarding the destiny of the dead.

The "Evolution" came when the New Testament appeared on the scene. Christians suddenly had the answer; Heaven and Hell. If you were good enough, Heaven would become your place of mansions, streets of gold, walls of jasper, and a crystal sea. If you didn't make it, too bad, you will be tortured forever in fire and brimstone.

Since the Old Testament doesn't even come close to supporting such ideas, we can clearly see this transition from one state to the other, where Religion(s) began to realize that greater control comes from greater fear, especially fear of the unknown.

Control was clearly Rome's intention, as uniting the Christians (Jews) with the Heathens (Gentiles) would be a difficult one. With the "Fear Bag" called Hell, Religious leaders could now initiate forms of discipline or ideas that tormented their followers if they became rebellious to Catholic/Christian dogmas.

When Adam and Eve failed in the Garden, there was never one word said about anyone burning in Hell for Eternity, or, of someone going to Heaven forever. Then you travel 1000's of years later into the future, and WAHLA, that's all people worry about; the unknown.

I have spoken with so many Christians who are depressed, anxious, and full of worry. With messages at Church that reflect, "We're going to be OUTTA HERE!", or "The World is going to END!", people have lost the joy of this life, for another life they aren't even sure exists.

This is a reproach to the Creator and the Creation that is meant to bless us with provision, family, and the realities of life. Eternity has created heartless Religions, where people will be tortured by a G-d that tolerates no disobedience, in a way we will never understand. As our families develop, we see that not all people are the same and that failure is a dominant trait in humans that cannot be suppressed, yet, we still throw the weak over our cliffs of judgment and into the doom of pure horror, all because "We THINK we know, even though we DON'T".

Folks, something is severely wrong with this picture.

[n david]

Jesus Himself spoke of an afterlife. If you can't see it, you're either willfully ignoring it or haven't read what He said.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

NotForSale:

I have a question.... when a seed is put into the ground, it is dried, shriveled up, and lifeless. How can something that is dead, begin to produce life?

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I am a horticulturist, and seeds are alive. They can also die if they are not stored properly, or they are exposed to extremes. If they die, the seed will not germinate.

"A seed is a living, respiring organism, despite usually appearing inert or even dead. To remain alive, the embryo must have access to food and oxygen. Eventually if it runs out of food or is subjected to physical damage, including attack by insects or fungi, it will die. If you want the seed to be sown to produce another plant, a dead seed is of no value whatever."

http://aseeds.net.au/9-faqs/general/...w-does-it-work

Exactly.

A seed appears lifeless, without form, and not having any life, however, life can inherently live within a seed, even though by looking at the seed it looks dead. Until that seed is put into the ground though, in apparent death, it will not be able to bring forth that life that resides in it.

I believe that this is a great way to understand that life does not end just when we think it does. New life always comes forth out of that which appears dead. The laws of nature teach us that new life CAN come forth out of that which is, to all appearances dead.

For this reason, this natural law teaches us that when a death takes place, under the right circumstances, that form takes on life that was already present within itself to live again.

I believe this is a tremendous parable that we can look to, and understand that when we die, we do not die to never live again. Instead, (as you mentioned above) if the right circumstances have been a part of our lives (water, sun, nutrients naturally for the seed, and for us spiritually, if our faith is in an eternal God who manifested himself through his Son Jesus), then new life is able to come forth out of that death.

This is the hope that Christians have. It is not fear! It is life eternal. We can live a wonderful life here on earth with the Lord, walking with Him and then, at a given point in time, our life as we know it here will end in death, but that death will serve to bring forth a newness of life that will be something totally different, and beyond what we can expect from this life. That is our hope. It is not a fear, but it is a hope that springs from the knowledge that we can have life eternal in Jesus Christ.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

No matter how you slice it and dice it, the Afterlife was not a prominent or dogmatic thought in the Old Testament, and it was never used as a tactic of Salvation. Bits and pieces seem to point to a different place beyond this one, but nothing was concrete or considered doctrine regarding the destiny of the dead.

The "Evolution" came when the New Testament appeared on the scene. Christians suddenly had the answer; Heaven and Hell. If you were good enough, Heaven would become your place of mansions, streets of gold, walls of jasper, and a crystal sea. If you didn't make it, too bad, you will be tortured forever in fire and brimstone.

Since the Old Testament doesn't even come close to supporting such ideas, we can clearly see this transition from one state to the other, where Religion(s) began to realize that greater control comes from greater fear, especially fear of the unknown.

Control was clearly Rome's intention, as uniting the Christians (Jews) with the Heathens (Gentiles) would be a difficult one. With the "Fear Bag" called Hell, Religious leaders could now initiate forms of discipline or ideas that tormented their followers if they became rebellious to Catholic/Christian dogmas.

When Adam and Eve failed in the Garden, there was never one word said about anyone burning in Hell for Eternity, or, of someone going to Heaven forever. Then you travel 1000's of years later into the future, and WAHLA, that's all people worry about; the unknown.

I have spoken with so many Christians who are depressed, anxious, and full of worry. With messages at Church that reflect, "We're going to be OUTTA HERE!", or "The World is going to END!", people have lost the joy of this life, for another life they aren't even sure exists.

This is a reproach to the Creator and the Creation that is meant to bless us with provision, family, and the realities of life. Eternity has created heartless Religions, where people will be tortured by a G-d that tolerates no disobedience, in a way we will never understand. As our families develop, we see that not all people are the same and that failure is a dominant trait in humans that cannot be suppressed, yet, we still throw the weak over our cliffs of judgment and into the doom of pure horror, all because "We THINK we know, even though we DON'T".

Folks, something is severely wrong with this picture.

Amen!

[Sean]

Boy that speech should make God change His mind...powerful!!!!

[n david]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

No matter how you slice it and dice it, the Afterlife was not a prominent or dogmatic thought in the Old Testament, and it was never used as a tactic of Salvation. Bits and pieces seem to point to a different place beyond this one, but nothing was concrete or considered doctrine regarding the destiny of the dead.

The "Evolution" came when the New Testament appeared on the scene. Christians suddenly had the answer; Heaven and Hell. If you were good enough, Heaven would become your place of mansions, streets of gold, walls of jasper, and a crystal sea. If you didn't make it, too bad, you will be tortured forever in fire and brimstone.

Since the Old Testament doesn't even come close to supporting such ideas, we can clearly see this transition from one state to the other, where Religion(s) began to realize that greater control comes from greater fear, especially fear of the unknown.

Control was clearly Rome's intention, as uniting the Christians (Jews) with the Heathens (Gentiles) would be a difficult one. With the "Fear Bag" called Hell, Religious leaders could now initiate forms of discipline or ideas that tormented their followers if they became rebellious to Catholic/Christian dogmas.

When Adam and Eve failed in the Garden, there was never one word said about anyone burning in Hell for Eternity, or, of someone going to Heaven forever. Then you travel 1000's of years later into the future, and WAHLA, that's all people worry about; the unknown.

I have spoken with so many Christians who are depressed, anxious, and full of worry. With messages at Church that reflect, "We're going to be OUTTA HERE!", or "The World is going to END!", people have lost the joy of this life, for another life they aren't even sure exists.

This is a reproach to the Creator and the Creation that is meant to bless us with provision, family, and the realities of life. Eternity has created heartless Religions, where people will be tortured by a G-d that tolerates no disobedience, in a way we will never understand. As our families develop, we see that not all people are the same and that failure is a dominant trait in humans that cannot be suppressed, yet, we still throw the weak over our cliffs of judgment and into the doom of pure horror, all because "We THINK we know, even though we DON'T".

Folks, something is severely wrong with this picture.

No matter how you slice it and dice it, repentance, water baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost was not a prominent or dogmatic thought in the Old Testament, and it was never used as a tactic of Salvation. Bits and pieces seem to point to it, but nothing was concrete or considered doctrine regarding the plan of salvation.

The "Evolution" came when this guy named Jesus appeared on the scene, and afterwards when the New Testament was written. Jesus and His "Disciples" suddenly had the answer -" you must be born again!" If you believed and were baptized, you were saved; if you didn't believe...you were damned!

Since the Old Testament doesn't even come close to supporting such ideas, we can CLEARLY see this transition from one state to the other, where Religions began to accept Jesus' teaching as truth. Besides, the Old Testament is better because it's ... older and therefore more better.

When Adam and Eve failed in the Garden, there was never one word said about a plan of salvation. Then you travel 1000's of years later into the future, and VOILA!, that's all religious leaders preach!

This must be a reproach to the Creator and the Creation that is meant to bless us with things that make us happy and forget about the wages of sin being death and all that stuff, which isn't spoken in the Old, cooler, Testament. The plan of salvation has created meanie preachers who preach that people must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As our families develop, we see that not all people are the same, and not all people are bad; yet, we still demand the sinner be saved...all because "We BELIEVE the words of Jesus and His disciples."

Folks, something has to be wrong with Jesus' words, because I want to live MY life without any consequence! It's MY life, and no one - no even Jesus Christ - should tell me how I should live MY life.

But I'm going to tell you how you should live your life and what you should believe. Over and over and over again. The Bible is just a book that was created by the RCC and Pope Willy John Johnson XII. The TORAH doesn't even mention the plan of salvation...neither does the Christian Old Testament. What do you mean they're the same?




/tic

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by n david

Jesus Himself spoke of an afterlife. If you can't see it, you're either willfully ignoring it or haven't read what He said.

You are willfully ignoring that you don't know, and that your doctrine is bathed with assumptions and maybes that lead to depression and bondage.

Come on, Dave, tell us why you won't go to Hell, and why you're so special and deserve to go to Heaven!

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Exactly.

A seed appears lifeless, without form, and not having any life, however, life can inherently live within a seed, even though by looking at the seed it looks dead. Until that seed is put into the ground though, in apparent death, it will not be able to bring forth that life that resides in it.

I believe that this is a great way to understand that life does not end just when we think it does. New life always comes forth out of that which appears dead. The laws of nature teach us that new life CAN come forth out of that which is, to all appearances dead.

For this reason, this natural law teaches us that when a death takes place, under the right circumstances, that form takes on life that was already present within itself to live again.

I believe this is a tremendous parable that we can look to, and understand that when we die, we do not die to never live again. Instead, (as you mentioned above) if the right circumstances have been a part of our lives (water, sun, nutrients naturally for the seed, and for us spiritually, if our faith is in an eternal God who manifested himself through his Son Jesus), then new life is able to come forth out of that death.

This is the hope that Christians have. It is not fear! It is life eternal. We can live a wonderful life here on earth with the Lord, walking with Him and then, at a given point in time, our life as we know it here will end in death, but that death will serve to bring forth a newness of life that will be something totally different, and beyond what we can expect from this life. That is our hope. It is not a fear, but it is a hope that springs from the knowledge that we can have life eternal in Jesus Christ.

Look, you didn't say, "APPEAR" dead, you said dead. You're starting to do what Dave is doing, twisting the truth when you're cornered to save face.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by n david

No matter how you slice it and dice it, repentance, water baptism and infilling of the Holy Ghost was not a prominent or dogmatic thought in the Old Testament, and it was never used as a tactic of Salvation. Bits and pieces seem to point to it, but nothing was concrete or considered doctrine regarding the plan of salvation.

The "Evolution" came when this guy named Jesus appeared on the scene, and afterwards when the New Testament was written. Jesus and His "Disciples" suddenly had the answer -" you must be born again!" If you believed and were baptized, you were saved; if you didn't believe...you were damned!

Since the Old Testament doesn't even come close to supporting such ideas, we can CLEARLY see this transition from one state to the other, where Religions began to accept Jesus' teaching as truth. Besides, the Old Testament is better because it's ... older and therefore more better.

When Adam and Eve failed in the Garden, there was never one word said about a plan of salvation. Then you travel 1000's of years later into the future, and VOILA!, that's all religious leaders preach!

This must be a reproach to the Creator and the Creation that is meant to bless us with things that make us happy and forget about the wages of sin being death and all that stuff, which isn't spoken in the Old, cooler, Testament. The plan of salvation has created meanie preachers who preach that people must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As our families develop, we see that not all people are the same, and not all people are bad; yet, we still demand the sinner be saved...all because "We BELIEVE the words of Jesus and His disciples."

Folks, something has to be wrong with Jesus' words, because I want to live MY life without any consequence! It's MY life, and no one - no even Jesus Christ - should tell me how I should live MY life.

But I'm going to tell you how you should live your life and what you should believe. Over and over and over again. The Bible is just a book that was created by the RCC and Pope Willy John Johnson XII. The TORAH doesn't even mention the plan of salvation...neither does the Christian Old Testament. What do you mean they're the same?




/tic

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Look, you didn't say, "APPEAR" dead, you said dead. You're starting to do what Dave is doing, twisting the truth when you're cornered to save face.

LOL! How am I "cornered"?

Can you deny that a seed can either be dead, or appears to be dead? Can you deny that from this apparent lack of life, there does come forth life? Can you deny the natural lesson from this?