What I'm Learning From Islam:

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Lets talk about lifespan. How come, if their healthcare systems are so terrible, they live longer?

My daughter was born in Saudi. We got no bill. We didn't have to wade through who was and was not a provider to determine what was selectively covered or not covered. The doctor was a salaried employee and we werent limited to a specific number of treatments or procedures like you are. In fact, we had an ultrasound with full measurements EVERY visit, as opposed to one or maybe two if your insurance company allows it. I found the healthcare system to be very good. Immunizations were free and her immunization schedule was more thorough and strict than it is here. So yea, if you want to talk about the healthcare system I guess I'm the one to do it.

What say you? Something from an article or book LOL? Personal experience?

First, the reason you didn't have to pay anything for your daughter's birth was because of the billions being pumped into the Saudi economy every year. This is yet another reason to turn your face to the west, especially America, and give thanks to Allah for them. Without America, this wouldn't have happened.

Now....health care in Islamic countries.

"Traditional gender roles and perceptions still tightly influence the degree of healthcare freedom offered to men and women in many Middle Eastern countries. A prevailing trend, though, is a modernizing effort by governments to increase awareness of healthy reproductive health practices and to create resources for family planning. In Syria, for example, males are generally more active in the social sphere while women are confined to the domestic sphere. For this reason, women, especially those in rural areas, are considered socially inferior and lack the freedom to make independent decisions regarding their health. As sons are generally preferred in Syrian culture, women are under continuous pressure to bear children until they have a son. "

"Careers in healthcare also highlight undertones of gender inequality. Dr. Shoushtariali Hakim, a recent immigrant who received his medical education in Iran, notes that males in Iran are legally restricted from specializing in gynecology; similarly, females are not allowed to go into urology. During routine check-ups and physicals, female doctors are greatly preferred to examine female patients, and likewise for males and male patients."

Why do many wealthy middle easterners go to the west, especially America, for medical treatment? If the medical community is so advanced in the middle east, seems that those individuals would stay there instead of running from the healthcare system.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Your own Islamic organization disagrees with you....

As if those are "my" numbers? LOL I see though. UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization ) is not a valid source? Are you aware that it is the ONLY source for comprehensive comparisons of levels of education between countries?

You are right in one thing OH Wise One - even though in so many Muslim countries literacy (among women, I didn't even bother to post literacy among men) is higher than in the US this is still not good enough. It is not good enough because unlike what you posted earlier, 85-99% literacy is an unacceptable number. It is unacceptable because unlike in the US, education is viewed with higher importance in the Muslim world.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

First, the reason you didn't have to pay anything for your daughter's birth was because of the billions being pumped into the Saudi economy every year.

And you are in the business of what? Because anything and everything you buy with that business or do for another business is because someone else paid that business for what they make or do. Duh. I'll accept your thanks for keeping your car gassed up and your lights on and move on. The above is a pretty dumb comment though.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

As if those are "my" numbers? LOL I see though. UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization ) is not a valid source? Are you aware that it is the ONLY source for comprehensive comparisons of levels of education between countries?

You are right in one thing OH Wise One - even though in so many Muslim countries literacy (among women, I didn't even bother to post literacy among men) is higher than in the US this is still not good enough. It is not good enough because unlike what you posted earlier, 85-99% literacy is an unacceptable number. It is unacceptable because unlike in the US, education is viewed with higher importance in the Muslim world.

Not so. Simply look at the real world, the facts. If those in the middle east can afford to do it, they always seek higher education in the west, especially America. Many times they stay here, other times they return to their respective countries, but in the quest for higher education the highest rated universities isn't in the middle east, they're in the west.

The vast majority of those who do come to the west for a better education are males, thus once again revealing the oppressive behavior toward females in Islam.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

"Careers in healthcare also highlight undertones of gender inequality. Dr. Shoushtariali Hakim, a recent immigrant who received his medical education in Iran, notes that males in Iran are legally restricted from specializing in gynecology; similarly, females are not allowed to go into urology. During routine check-ups and physicals, female doctors are greatly preferred to examine female patients, and likewise for males and male patients."

Uhhhh yeah. The Saudi doctor who delivered our baby was a woman. I guess she somehow took some time out from her cooking and cleaning and baby-making huh because she wasn't dragging her stove around on a chain.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I'm a Texan sport. You may kindly thank me for keeping your car gassed up and lights on.

I can see that wasteland from the photos. Ever been there? I have.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...kyscraper.html

Well, ok, if you're an American in the oil business, you are to be recognized as the reason that I can keep my car gassed up and my lights on. If I had to depend on the muslims to develop the oil industry to the point it is today, there would be total failure. You're not recognizing the fact that without the west, without America, the muslims in the middle east wouldn't have an oil industry.

Again, turn your face to America and give thanks. That's what gave the muslim world in the middle east their riches.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Uhhhh yeah. The Saudi doctor who delivered our baby was a woman. I guess she somehow took some time out from her cooking and cleaning and baby-making huh because she wasn't dragging her stove around on a chain.

Of course it was a woman. Women treat women, men treat men in the Islamic countries. What's your point?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Not so. Simply look at the real world, the facts. If those in the middle east can afford to do it, they always seek higher education in the west, especially America. Many times they stay here, other times they return to their respective countries, but in the quest for higher education the highest rated universities aren't in the middle east, they're in the west.

The vast majority of those who do come to the west for a better education are males, thus once again revealing the oppressive behavior toward females in Islam.

You might have a valid point if the literacy rates, in spite of all the doom, weren't so much higher LOL

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Of course it was a woman. Women treat women, men treat men in the Islamic countries. What's your point?

My point is that you can hardly say on one hand that women are oppressed and uneducated in Muslim countries and on the other hand complain about which areas of medicine female doctors traditionally practice or do not practice

There was a recent article about the Ohio State OB/GYN program that pointed out that 90% of the students in that program were female. Using your silly and convoluted logic what does that imply?

I will tell you what that implies to me. Muslim, christian, buddha, athiest, wiccan - it doesn't matter - women all over generally prefer female doctors for female issues

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

It appears that she has more education compared to YOUR contemporaries LOL. Pretty sad given the terrible state of things for Muslim women/girls huh

College - yes. Her 2 brothers and her sister also went to University. They all speak / read English and Arabic as well as Bahasa.

Idly wondering and since I answered - how 'bout your family? Do all of your siblings have a college education and speak multiple languages? I have to admit mine don't. They didn't have the strict upbringing with high standard of education that a Muslim in the third world has. My money's on this: Yours is the same. Who are you then to run off your e-mouth if you cannot or did not do better?

In fact, most of my family holds post-secondary school degrees of some kind. AAnd there was no difference in obtaining higher education because of their gender, that was not a factor at all. In many muslim countries, that's not the case and you an I both know it.

Where do women (as well as men) go who want the best in a higher education? Not to a muslim country I assure you. It's always to a western university. That's assuming that the government will allow them to pursue it.