Stunning Sermon On The Great Tribulation - Page 5

TGBTG · #41 02-28-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Actually, I was starting at the beginning of Matt 24, proposing that Jesus was speaking of a specific event that is particular to a certain period of time. When Jesus said to the disciples, you will see this and that, things are going to happen to you, He was speaking to a certain group of people, not generally.

Yes, Jesus spoke of the immediate future (70 AD), but what I'm saying is that he also spoke of the distant future...

Yes, the temple was destroyed (we agree on that). How about the part where ALL eyes shall see him? That's what I'm asking..

Matt 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

TGBTG · #42 02-28-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Starting at the beginning of Matt 24, is it your view that Jesus was speaking of the future destruction of the temple he was showing His disciples?

Mat 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."

Jesus was speaking of the destruction of the temple that existed that day. We agree on that!

Jermyn Davidson · #43 02-28-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

audience relevence is the key to understanding.

Mat 24:3 as he was sitting on the mount of olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"
mat 24:4 and jesus answered and said to them, "see to it that no one misleads you.
Mat 24:5 "for many will come in my name, saying, 'i am the christ,' and will mislead many.
Mat 24:6 "you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Mat 24:7 "for nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Mat 24:8 "but all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Mat 24:9 "then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name.

Jesus was speaking to his disciples, not to folks 2000+ years in the future.

bizzzaaaarrrro!

seekerman · #44 02-28-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Yes, Jesus spoke of the immediate future (70 AD), but what I'm saying is that he also spoke of the distant future...

Yes, the temple was destroyed (we agree on that). How about the part where ALL eyes shall see him? That's what I'm asking..

Matt 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I don't think anyone would argue that Jesus isn't speaking of the destruction of the temple at some future point in time. He immediately begins speaking to His disciples concerning this time of trouble.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Would "them" and "you" be specific to a specific group of people concerning a specific time period in the future, in other words not the church in general? Since Jesus begins by speaking of the destruction of the temple, why wouldn't Matt 24:4-9 be speaking of the time of the destruction of the temple?

Jermyn Davidson · #45 02-28-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Can you imagine how shocked these prets will be (and pre tribs) when the mighty judgment of Elohim begins to hit the Earth? When millions upon millions are being slain of the Lord? When he is driving the worlds kingdoms from the face of the Earth?

Actually we will all need more grace to live in the tribulation. Those of us who do.

Some reading this thread may be called to lay down their lives for the glorious Bridegroom. Its now in this time we need to settle the issues about loyalty to Christ. We need to embrace the first and great commandment.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Nothing this life has to offer compares with him. Let us be glad he he warned us of these things ahead of time.

Thank you MTD for this very sobering post.

TGBTG · #46 02-28-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

I don't think anyone would argue that Jesus isn't speaking of the destruction of the temple at some future point in time. He immediately begins speaking to His disciples concerning this time of trouble.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Would "them" and "you" be specific to a specific group of people concerning a specific time period in the future, in other words not the church in general? Since Jesus begins by speaking of the destruction of the temple, why wouldn't Matt 24:4-9 be speaking of the time of the destruction of the temple?

I have answered this question over and over again. I said Jesus spoke of the immediate future AS WELL as the distant future.

Temple was destroyed (immediate future)
All eyes shall see Jesus (not yet occurred, at least IMO)

TGBTG · #47 02-28-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is some of the very best end time teaching I have heard. I ask you to spend 55 minutes listening to this message. This kind of teaching is very rare. It could change your life.

Mike Bickle teaching on the Great Tribulation and the Kingdom Of God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6AEI...eature=related

Dude, this is not convincing at all to say the least...

In fact, I am now more pre-trib after watching this clip...lol

He's appealing to emotional radicalism...IMO

seekerman · #48 02-28-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I have answered this question over and over again. I said Jesus spoke of the immediate future AS WELL as the distant future.

Temple was destroyed (immediate future)
All eyes shall see Jesus (not yet occurred, at least IMO)

The key then is determining when Jesus changed from speaking of the immediate future to a future of 2000+ years later in Matt 24.

shag · #49 02-28-2012, 11:35 PM

TGBTG, This isnt Matt. 24, but would you say that this was intended for, and fullfilled in the generation of whom Jesus was speaking to?

Luke 11: Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 48 In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers; for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

crakjak · #50 02-28-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok he was teaching truth. I believe in the coming man of sin. I also believe Israel is beloved for the Fathers sake and that a remnant of Jews will come to Christ in the end time.

Ok, I was mistaken, but don't you believe in fulfilled prophecy in the preterist sense?