Twitter-TF Tenney at Jentezn Franklin's 2morrow!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

MB just is more eloquent and articulate than I. I couldn't have said it better. (A good example of when to quote someone btw )

It's hard to amen a post that contains a personal compliment. TY.

But, yes--when someone else says something better--quote them! Say, "Maya Angelou once said, '.....'" or "I read a quote by Abe Lincoln the other day...." OR "TFT commented on this scripture and said, '....'"

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

UPC has everything to do with it cause I am sure that is where the bulk of the accusations you are talking about come from. Am I wrong?

Maybe I don't have any humility. I see nothing wrong with using a sermon topic or even some points from another preacher. I honestly see it that if a person gets upset about it that it is just insecurity talking. I see that someone that uses someone elses sermon might be insecure. I get that. But the times that I have used someones sermon idea was NEVER out of insecurity at all.

Actually, let me help you with this. I mentioned JF's alleged plagiarism, which happened to come from UPC preachers. You proceeded to defend plagiarism (or otherwise define it on your terms) quite explicitly. Thus, our discussion is concerning the ethics of sermon stealing and not the UPC. They are as relevant as elephant manure to this discussion.

Again, I ask the question that has been asked MANY times with no response. WHY NOT?

Romans 12:10b "Honor one another above yourselves."

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

JTULLOCK, if I credit an author, it's not because I think they will "care" if I don't--it's about my personal integrity. I don't want to lead someone to believe that a particular thought or quote is mine if it isn't, and the only way to prevent that is to vaguely state that I heard it somewhere, or give the actual author's name.



No, no one's trying to pick apart a sermon any way they can. I've heard fantastic sermons by legends--and then heard a young evangelist in a revival preach the same thing word for word. It didn't require purposeful picking apart on my part. It was just obvious and made me cringe. I haven't listened to anything of JF's, and I don't know the details about his alleged plagiarism.

In general, plagiarism just simply isn't necessary. Plagiarism isn't just using someone's property--it's using it without permission or without giving credit. I don't have a problem with young ministers using sources or being inspired by older ministers--that's to be expected. Being inspired to preach on the same topic, in your own words, is NOT the same as copying an entire sermon or giving an exact quote as your own.

Why not credit a source?

If you feel that you must quote the source that is fine. I don't mind that. I think that it is an issue that we are not going to see eye to eye on. If I preached something and someone used it that it cool with me. If someone used what I did and made money off it too bad I didn't think of that first.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Actually, let me help you with this. I mentioned JF's alleged plagiarism, which happened to come from UPC preachers. You proceeded to defend plagiarism (or otherwise define it on your terms) quite explicitly. Thus, our discussion is concerning the ethics of sermon stealing and not the UPC. They are as relevant as elephant manure to this discussion.

Again, I ask the question that has been asked MANY times with no response. WHY NOT?

Romans 12:10b "Honor one another above yourselves."

So you want me to answer the question 'why not go ahead and give the source or credit'?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's hard to amen a post that contains a personal compliment. TY.

But, yes--when someone else says something better--quote them! Say, "Maya Angelou once said, '.....'" or "I read a quote by Abe Lincoln the other day...." OR "TFT commented on this scripture and said, '....'"

See I have done this before. I have heard it done before too. But I don't think that it matters much. Honestly when I hear someone says something like this is 'man they must listen to a lot of preaching' or 'man that I bet that was a good sermon too.'

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

UPC has everything to do with it cause I am sure that is where the bulk of the accusations you are talking about come from. Am I wrong?

Maybe I don't have any humility. I see nothing wrong with using a sermon topic or even some points from another preacher. I honestly see it that if a person gets upset about it that it is just insecurity talking. I see that someone that uses someone elses sermon might be insecure. I get that. But the times that I have used someones sermon idea was NEVER out of insecurity at all.

Okay. Listen.

We've been going to the same church for over 10 years, and I'm sure that over the years at least some of the things my pastor teaches/preaches have sunk in. To the point that I probably quote things that he has taught in regard to different topics without realizing it. That's one thing. However, there are also "quotes" that he uses all the time, and I know when I'm using one--and I credit him. EVEN in casual conversation.

At the dinner table, we've said things like, "Pastor T said the other day...." and that will spark a family conversation. I don't start it out with what my Pastor said as if I thought it up, but what follows are our own opinions and thoughts and they don't need to be put into conversational quotation marks.

Does that not make sense to you? Sure there are times when ministers are going to have similar thoughts, especially when they're all using the same main source--the Bible. However, when a minister uses another preacher's recorded or written sermon as his main source, AND uses a large bulk of the material in his own sermon, it ought to be credited. What's wrong with saying, "I heard this preached the other day, and it was so inspiring, I wanted to share it with you."

I still think bread made from scratch is the best kind....

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

So you want me to answer the question 'why not go ahead and give the source or credit'?

Yes.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Whoa, you falsely quoted me, MB!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Okay. Listen.

We've been going to the same church for over 10 years, and I'm sure that over the years at least some of the things my pastor teaches/preaches have sunk in. To the point that I probably quote things that he has taught in regard to different topics without realizing it. That's one thing. However, there are also "quotes" that he uses all the time, and I know when I'm using one--and I credit him. EVEN in casual conversation.

At the dinner table, we've said things like, "Pastor T said the other day...." and that will spark a family conversation. I don't start it out with what my Pastor said as if I thought it up, but what follows are our own opinions and thoughts and they don't need to be put into conversational quotation marks. Does that not make sense to you? Sure there are times when ministers are going to have similar thoughts, especially when they're all using the same main source--the Bible. However, when a minister uses another preacher's recorded or written sermon as his main source, AND uses a large bulk of the material in his own sermon, it ought to be credited. What's wrong with saying, "I heard this preached the other day, and it was so inspiring, I wanted to share it with you."

I still think bread made from scratch is the best kind....

What you said here makes sense, but this is not the samething in my mind. quoting a specific thought during a flow of conversation I get it cause both of you probably hear Pastor T say that and you were both going back to that same place to when he said it. the quote was used as a point of referance. I don't see it the same as when one is preaching...I really don't.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Whoa, you falsely quoted me, MB!

I'll do reconnaissance later.