Praying People Through - Page 6

staysharp · #51 03-09-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

You're very kind! lol.......While I disagree with you on one hand, I do (at least in part) agree with you on another. The difference being that IMHO the biblical evidence of "tongues" being the "initial" evidence is quite compelling. (3 out of 5 times it is specifically mentioned as the initial evidential sign of Holy Spirit baptism.)

This would put me in what some would call the "initial evidence" doctrinal camp. Meaning, that I do not believe one can receive the true spirit of Christ without the fruit of that spirit being manifest in their lives. (No matter how much they speak with tongues.) The fruit of the spirit will bring progressive balance, control, and proper relationship, the lack of which would prove the absence of the Holy Ghost.

Again there is a difference between a sign and evidence. A sign points to the reality of what is; the evidence reveals what exists...

RandyWayne · #52 03-09-2009, 10:54 PM

What about the cloven tongues like fire?

Or the rushing wind?

staysharp · #53 03-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

What about the cloven tongues like fire?

Or the rushing wind?

These were all signs which pointed to the reality of the moment. These were not the evidence.

Again, a sign points towards the reality, the evidence points back to the reality. The fruit is evidence of the tree. A sign may say.."this tree exists", but the fruit is the reality or truth of its existence.

RandyWayne · #54 03-09-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

These were all signs which pointed to the reality of the moment. These were not the evidence.

Again, a sign points towards the reality, the evidence points back to the reality. The fruit is evidence of the tree. A sign may say.."this tree exists", but the fruit is the reality or truth of its existence.

Exactly.

My point is that modern church's do not demand to see a holographic-like tongue of fire above everyone who receives the holy ghost? Instead they have focused on the "tongues".

But the real EVIDENCE is the fruits after wards!
(And I can vouch for this!)

staysharp · #55 03-09-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

You're very kind! lol.......While I disagree with you on one hand, I do (at least in part) agree with you on another. The difference being that IMHO the biblical evidence of "tongues" being the "initial" evidence is quite compelling. (3 out of 5 times it is specifically mentioned as the initial evidential sign of Holy Spirit baptism.)

This would put me in what some would call the "initial evidence" doctrinal camp. Meaning, that I do not believe one can receive the true spirit of Christ without the fruit of that spirit being manifest in their lives. (No matter how much they speak with tongues.) The fruit of the spirit will bring progressive balance, control, and proper relationship, the lack of which would prove the absence of the Holy Ghost.

I need to add something here. The only proof the Holy Spirit exists is by what is manifested. Jesus said the wind blows where it desires, you can't see it, but you can hear the sound. The only way you can know the wind exists is through the reality of its output. You see the tree moving, you feel it against your body.

There can be a sign which says..."high winds ahead", but unless you see the evidence of what it is producing, there is no wind.

I believe tongues is a sign...one of many which currently exists pointing to the infilling of the Holy Spirit. It is not the evidence. The evidence is a result of the reality of what is...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, temperance, meekness...etc..

staysharp · #56 03-09-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Exactly.

My point is that modern church's do not demand to see a holographic-like tongue of fire above everyone who receives the holy ghost? Instead they have focused on the "tongues".

But the real EVIDENCE is the fruits after wards!
(And I can vouch for this!)

Randy, tragically spiritism is alive and well in Pentecost. Everyone is following the sign and not the evidence. Satan is very subtle. Charismaticism is filled with signs. Some may be of the true Holy Spirit, others may not.

Jesus didn't say...you will know them by the miracles, or by the tongues, or by the signs. As a matter of fact, he said it was a wicked and adulterous people who looked for signs. Why? Because they look to everything, but the reality of what exists. This is why they are adulterous. They have found god in a sign.

TRFrance · #57 03-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This article is right from the pit of hell.

I post this without having read anything other than the initial post of the thread.

You really need to watch your mouth.
That comment was waay out of order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

My sentiments exactly...

You too.

I'm not usually this blunt, but this time, I dont feel the need to be "diplomatic".

staysharp · #58 03-09-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

You really need to watch your mouth.
That comment wasnt waay out of order.

You too.

I'm not usually this blunt, but this time, I dont feel the need to be "diplomatic".

I may have misread...did you mean to say...wasn't way out of order? or was way out of order? lol

TRFrance · #59 03-09-2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

I may have misread...did you mean to say...wasn't way out of order? or was way out of order? lol

I corrected it.

Michael The Disciple · #60 03-10-2009, 12:27 AM

Problem is for the no initial evidence people that the scenes in the Bible where we see people receive the Holy Ghost they did speak with tongues and in one case, also prophesy.

They cant produce scripture where its showing people up close receive and there was some other manifestation.

And we know for sure the Spirit does not just come automatically because of Acts 8.

They had believed. They had been baptized.

They HAD NOT received the Holy Ghost.