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12-07-2008, 05:03 PM
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the ultracon
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: smack dab in da middle
Posts: 4,443
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I won't be so quick to credit these responses as anything other than a lack of commitment to deal with the "BOOKS" Dan has just written.
TR and SE have both shown they can grapple with these arguments in the past.
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Big difference in grappling and proving something wrong. 
__________________
God has lavished his love upon me.
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12-07-2008, 06:00 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast
I have noticed this so often in conversations with 3 step pentecostals.
After finding their doctrine crumbles as a house of cards, they "grow tired" of the conversation and become "weary" in their defense.
Next will be the cry to ban Dan.  |
OK, I am a one-stepper, but I don't think that is an accurate statement.
I think both one-steppers and three-steppers get tired of these conversations after a while and just stop posting.
How often can we just keep saying the same things over and over?
Just realize that there are both one-steppers and three-steppers in the Church, or in the Body of Christ, or in the people known as Apostolic, or whatever we want to call ourselves. And both one-steppers and three-steppers need to follow the three "R"s:
Recognize one another,
Respect one another,
Realize we're all in this family together as brothers and sisters
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12-07-2008, 06:10 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast
Big difference in grappling and proving something wrong. |
Yep, and that goes both ways. Sheesh.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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12-07-2008, 06:10 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Good words, Sam.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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12-07-2008, 06:11 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
OK, I am a one-stepper, but I don't think that is an accurate statement.
I think both one-steppers and three-steppers get tired of these conversations after a while and just stop posting.
How often can we just keep saying the same things over and over?
Just realize that there are both one-steppers and three-steppers in the Church, or in the Body of Christ, or in the people known as Apostolic, or whatever we want to call ourselves. And both one-steppers and three-steppers need to follow the three "R"s:
Recognize one another,
Respect one another,
Realize we're all in this family together as brothers and sisters
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I agree.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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12-07-2008, 06:56 PM
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the ultracon
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: smack dab in da middle
Posts: 4,443
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
OK, I am a one-stepper, but I don't think that is an accurate statement.
I think both one-steppers and three-steppers get tired of these conversations after a while and just stop posting.
How often can we just keep saying the same things over and over?
Just realize that there are both one-steppers and three-steppers in the Church, or in the Body of Christ, or in the people known as Apostolic, or whatever we want to call ourselves. And both one-steppers and three-steppers need to follow the three "R"s:
Recognize one another,
Respect one another,
Realize we're all in this family together as brothers and sisters
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Well Sam...thats why I respect you so much. You made stop and think about my words.
I was a bit sharp in my comment. Both positions of the debate of course feel they are the ones that are right.
It does get old debating what we've debated so long, so many times before.
My apologies. 
__________________
God has lavished his love upon me.
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12-07-2008, 07:04 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I hear what you are saying but I question whether the distictions are that clear. Paul seems to be saying tongues themselves (if they are not understood or interpreted) are not for the public assembly.
Ecstatic utterances of "other tongues", if heard by the assembly (including unbelievers) are in essence the very same as what you are calling "Prophetic tongues". One might argue the difference is a question of addressing the assembly or not. Were this the case, it would become a matter of volume and perhaps discernment on the part of church leadership. Neither of which changes how an unbeliever would perceive the event.
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Stephen,
Are you saying that at no time would a saint, in a church setting, ever utter anything in tongues unless they felt it would be tongues and interpretation or prophesy?
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12-07-2008, 07:15 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Stephen,
Are you saying that at no time would a saint, in a church setting, ever utter anything in tongues unless they felt it would be tongues and interpretation or prophesy?
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I believe that is the only way one can read 1 Cor. 14
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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12-07-2008, 07:31 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
I believe that is the only way one can read 1 Cor. 14 |
Not really, IMO. If the text is discussing the operation of the gifts, Paul is speaking to them of using that gift with order.
I believe it is like a person that continues to speak in tongues when it's not appropriate to do so or they get carried away and elevate the volume when the congregation is not going that way. We've dealt with people who needed teaching on this very thing.
In verse 6 Paul is saying, "Now, brethren, if I come unto speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"
I believe he is wanting them, by the text together, to mature above where they are - rambling on and not knowing how to "manage", if you will, the Spirit of God.
Saying that we cannot utter tongues outside of tongues and interpretation contradicts someone receiving the Holy Ghost at the initial infilling. You are speaking in tongues at that point.
The men on the day of Pentecost were accused of being drunk. They were speaking in tongues for all to hear. How long did they do that? Long enough to draw a crowd. IMO, if that was what God was speaking of in I Cor 14, he wouldn't have allowed that display in Acts 2. JMO.
I believe I Cor 14 is a discourse on decency and order.
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12-07-2008, 07:39 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Pitfalls in Solely Relying on Acts for doctrin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Not really, IMO. If the text is discussing the operation of the gifts, Paul is speaking to them of using that gift with order.
I believe it is like a person that continues to speak in tongues when it's not appropriate to do so or they get carried away and elevate the volume when the congregation is not going that way. We've dealt with people who needed teaching on this very thing.
In verse 6 Paul is saying, "Now, brethren, if I come unto speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"
I believe he is wanting them, by the text together, to mature above where they are - rambling on and not knowing how to "manage", if you will, the Spirit of God.
Saying that we cannot utter tongues outside of tongues and interpretation contradicts someone receiving the Holy Ghost at the initial infilling. You are speaking in tongues at that point.
The men on the day of Pentecost were accused of being drunk. They were speaking in tongues for all to hear. How long did they do that? Long enough to draw a crowd. IMO, if that was what God was speaking of in I Cor 14, he wouldn't have allowed that display in Acts 2. JMO.
I believe I Cor 14 is a discourse on decency and order. |
Here is the bottom line
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
I would concede Verse 28 may indicate "speaking in tongues" silently or softly (inaudible), but not that others can hear.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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