Why do YOU believe the Bible? - Page 16

ReformedDave · #**151** 03-22-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Ravi Zacharias has been awesomely effective though.

He does understand the implications of the religions of the East and he's very articulate. Some of his material has helped me.....though he's still and evidentialist.

mizpeh · #**152** 03-22-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

My point is that 99%(give or take) of what is called apologetics or reasoning doesn't deal with these essential elementary basics and it amounts to not only giving of bad argumentation but also of allowing the autonomous reasoning of the unbeliever. Anything that allows the unbeliever to think he or she is reasoning autonomously is the same sin that Eve committed. "You have your facts and I have mine. Let's see whose pile is bigger and whose 'facts' are stronger" Where Scripture states that every thought is to be captive to Christ and if one doesn't presuppose these elementary truths he cannot reason correctly at all. He may be able to count but he cannot account for counting.

Proverbs 26:4-5 states; "4 Answer not a fool according to his folly,
lest you be like him yourself.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own eyes."

Don't use his argumentation and assume his autonomy with him and also show him the folly and futility of reasoning. Show him, that on his worldview he cannot account for anything. He cannot give a basis for right and wrong, what we know, and how we know what we know.

Are you saying you know the Bible is true because of its worldview? It gives an answer for why the world is the way it is.

The Bible presupposes itself to be true in that it never tries to prove itself. The first lines are point blank...In the beginning, God...

The apostles never try to prove the scriptures to be true except to say...this or that scripture was fullfilled in Christ...they all presuppose the word of God is truth also.

I don't see how this is suppose to convince an unbeliever especially someone of another faith. Honestly I don't think you can rationalize anyone into believing God exists..

Felicity · #**153** 03-22-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

He does understand the implications of the religions of the East and he's very articulate. Some of his material has helped me.....though he's still and evidentialist.

His material has helped you with what? Do you mean in regard to articulating your own apologetic explanation of why we should accept Scripture as Truth and as being authentic?

Scott Hutchinson · #**154** 03-22-2007, 09:41 PM

I'm simple minded I believe the Bible because I'm addicted to it.

Scott Hutchinson · #**155** 03-22-2007, 09:42 PM

Personally I would like to read Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell.

ReformedDave · #**156** 03-23-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

His material has helped you with what? Do you mean in regard to articulating your own apologetic explanation of why we should accept Scripture as Truth and as being authentic?

No. More of understanding the eastern religions and their worldviews.

ReformedDave · #**157** 03-23-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Personally I would like to read Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell.

Pretty weak stuff. Cotton candy for the mind.....

ReformedDave · #**158** 03-23-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I'm simple minded I believe the Bible because I'm addicted to it.

As a testimony I've got no problem with that.

OGIA · #**159** 03-23-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I honestly believe that the majority, vast majority, are ill-equipped to defend the faith. Everything I've seen here so far has been apologetics from experience or testimony, historical, or archaeological. All are philosophically bad arguments and sub-Biblical that any thinking unbeliever with an ax to grind can easily destroy them. They may be alright in building up one's own faith and as a testimony some may be appropriate but as a Scriptural defense of the faith they are lacking.

Hmmmm? I guess all those souls that have been won by these "half-wits" were just by luck, huh?

God saves, Dave; not Dave and his brain.

ReformedDave · #**160** 03-23-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OGIA

Hmmmm? I guess all those souls that have been won by these "half-wits" were just by luck, huh?

God saves, Dave; not Dave and his brain.

God is THE savior but He deserves and requires that we use our brains the way He has intended. What's more important than souls is that He is glorified and that is done by doing things His way and not our. He uses imperfect people but that does not give us an excuse to do bad work. The ends do not justify the means.....though you seem to think so.