Does no one accept responsibility any more?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I doubt that they did not explain that these loans were able to go up.

I was a detail person in the construction industry as I did finish work. When I go into a house, I can see all the flaws, and could point them out. But when a home buyer goes into that same home, all they see is shiny paint, and shiny fixtures. They do not see the baseboard that runs on the floor, showing the uneven drywall. They do not see the outlet that is crooked in the bedroom. This is what I believe has happened to many in this issue. ALL they saw was a chance to own a house. They did not hear the broker tell them there was risk. ALL they heard was YES.


Again, did some NOT adequately present the risk involved to consumers. I am sure there was. But I believe it an exception, and not the norm.

Matt, believe me when I tell you it happened. I spoke with so many people who found themselves in this mortgage crisis mess. I heard over and over again that the details of the loans were not explained fully. People would call crying over the situations they were in, desperately looking for a way out. They didn't even have the option of refinancing through the bank they had the loans thru because it had stopped offering refi's completely. I'm not talking about ignorant uneducated people either. Some of these people had million dollar homes and were professionals.

Did you know that there is no regulatory agency for mortgage brokers? As an insurance agent, I have to take tests, get licensed, agree to abide by ethical standards, maintain my license through continuing education, and I can get into serious trouble for not following these guidelines? I can get into enough trouble that the State can pull my license and I wouldn't be able to sell insurance any more. There's no such regulation with mortgage brokers.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

This here just ain't even Christian, and I am going to report it.

What's non-Christian about it. Nothing says we have to accept someone else praying for us. I've told a few people not to bother praying for me because I didn't want what they had.

Originally Posted by Ron

You are right, people do use and abuse thier neighbour.
Society in North America while far from perfect, is a pretty good place to live.
There is greed on every side.
Jesus said it will be so.

Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

This speaks to me that while we have the poor always with us, there will never be true Social Equality until Christ comes back.

Woa unto that Man, Woman, or business who just lives for himself!

I like Marks’ more complete rendering. Here’s what the Bible says about the poor and godly business practices….

“For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good:” - Mark 14:7

Here are just a few verses about how a nation and a people should regard the poor of their land….

Exodus 22:25
If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

Exodus 23:3
Neither shalt thou countenance a poor man in his cause.

Exodus 23:11
But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.

Leviticus 23:22
And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 25:35
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

Deuteronomy 15:7
If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:

Deuteronomy 15:9
Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Deuteronomy 24:14
Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:

Deuteronomy 24:15
At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee.

Psalm 10:2
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

Psalm 10:8
He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.

Psalm 10:9
He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.

Psalm 12:5
For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psalm 14:6
Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.

Psalm 37:14
The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

Psalm 41:1
Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.

Proverbs 14:21
He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

Proverbs 18:23
The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly.

Proverbs 19:17
He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

Proverbs 22:16
He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Proverbs 29:14
The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever.

Proverbs 30:14
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Proverbs 31:9
Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Isaiah 10:2
To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Daniel 4:27
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

Amos 2:6
Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;

Amos 4:1
Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.

Amos 5:12
For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right.

Amos 8:4
Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,

Galatians 2:10
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

James 2:6
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I like Marks’ more complete rendering. Here’s what the Bible says about the poor and godly business practices….

“For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good:” - Mark 14:7

Here are just a few verses about how a nation and a people should regard the poor of their land….

Exodus 22:25
If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

Exodus 23:3
Neither shalt thou countenance a poor man in his cause.

Exodus 23:11
But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard.

Leviticus 23:22
And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 25:35
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

Deuteronomy 15:7
If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:

Deuteronomy 15:9
Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Deuteronomy 24:14
Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:

Deuteronomy 24:15
At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee.

Psalm 10:2
The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

Psalm 10:8
He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.

Psalm 10:9
He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.

Psalm 12:5
For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psalm 14:6
Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.

Psalm 37:14
The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

Psalm 41:1
Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.

Proverbs 14:21
He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.

Proverbs 18:23
The poor useth intreaties; but the rich answereth roughly.

Proverbs 19:17
He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

Proverbs 22:16
He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Proverbs 29:14
The king that faithfully judgeth the poor, his throne shall be established for ever.

Proverbs 30:14
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Proverbs 31:9
Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Isaiah 10:2
To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Daniel 4:27
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.

Amos 2:6
Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;

Amos 4:1
Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.

Amos 5:12
For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right.

Amos 8:4
Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,

Galatians 2:10
Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

James 2:6
But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Again, I agree with you.
However, this is just one point.
We in North America, no, the World are up the proverbial creek & God is going to require some things of us.
Not the least of which the majority are not saved.

[DividedThigh]

my grandpa always said no one gets better till they stop making excuses and start taking responsibility for themselves, just a notion, dt

[Tiberius Pantera]

whew!

You know what i really cant stand? A liberal that suggests conservitives neither care about the poor nor do anything about the poor because they oppose wiled eyed and exteremly stupid policy that will do more harm to the American economy than any help the offer.

Its moronic at best.

Conservitives ALL think that certain things should be done by government to keep people from starving to death and from being drains on society. they do not believe in cradle to grave butt whiping! only liberals go there. and have in this thread.

hoey!

The best way to help struggling Americans is to toss the socialists out and thus improve the American economy.

[Pragmatist]

I think Rico has done an excellent job of presenting the lending crisis.

My husband and I both have college degrees, so we are not illiterate, uneducated people. We researched the different types of loans prior to buying a home. We used a mortgage broker from our church and we "trusted" him to help us with the details. Well, in some ways he outright lied to us, and other things he just didn't disclose. I knew we were getting an ARM, but it was fixed for 5 years. He told us we didn't qualify for a conventional loan because my husband hadn't been at his job for 2 years. BTW our credit rating is over 800. He said refinance in 2 years, and we would be fine. Oh, but he failed to mention that there was a prepayment penalty on the loan. I have searched all the papers we signed and still haven't found mention of it. He also failed to tell us that the HELOC had a variable rate. I thought it was fixed for 5 years like the primary loan. Now, I agree that maybe I should have researched the HELOC better, but his lies and failure to disclose were not my fault. Now we have never missed a payment or paid late, and we haven't hit our 5 years yet, so we still have time to refinance, but I am sympathetic to others in a similar situation.

I think predatory lending practices and LYING are not as uncommon as some here think, although, it probably depends on the region where one lives.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by T. Pantera

whew!

You know what i really cant stand? A liberal that suggests conservitives neither care about the poor nor do anything about the poor because they oppose wiled eyed and exteremly stupid policy that will do more harm to the American economy than any help the offer.

Its moronic at best.

Conservitives ALL think that certain things should be done by government to keep people from starving to death and from being drains on society. they do not believe in cradle to grave butt whiping! only liberals go there. and have in this thread.

hoey!

The best way to help struggling Americans is to toss the socialists out and thus improve the American economy.

wow, i dont even know you but i allready like you pantera, dt

[Ron]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

wow, i dont even know you but i allready like you pantera, dt

I think I know this person & you do too DT!

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by Ron

I think I know this person & you do too DT!

really, i dont have a clue, he just joined, dt