Colossians 1:12-17

Originally Posted by mfblume

As far as 1 John is concerned, the Judaizers were directly opposed to the thought of Christ being Jesus incarnate, as both God and man. Reading Acys and other epistles tends to cause me to see Judaizers as the major enemies of the cross. I once espoused that Gnostics were the problem addressed in 1 John, too. But someone pointed out the Judaistic element that is all through the ealry church days. I changed and agreed. My thoughts, anyway.

I agree to some extent. I think the two types of Gnostics were making life hard for the 1st century church, more so by the time Paul was in his ministry. Irenaeus and others wrote some extensive letters against them. At any rate, my concern in this thread is about Gnostics and Paul's purpose. I’m curious to see how the Oneness Pentecostal's interpretation and the purpose matches up.

[mfblume]

As for Colossians, did you notice how chapter two stresses that we do not have to be judged as to whether we keep the holy days, sabbaths, new moons and drinks? I think this is evidence the book is atacking Judaizers, again.

And now, back to your topic.

Originally Posted by mfblume

As for Colossians, did you notice how chapter two stresses that we do not have to be judged as to whether we keep the holy days, sabbaths, new moons and drinks? I think this is evidence the book is atacking Judaizers, again.

And now, back to your topic.

"Many Gnostic myths are clearly influenced by Judaism."

http://www.spiritpathways.com/gnosis.html

Col 2:15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

The mention of the "new moon" and "sabbath days" (2:16) shows that Gnostic ascetics were judging the body of Christ for "eating and drinking" and observing the "feasts, New Moons, and Sabbaths."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Colossians


I'm not sure if Paul's letter was directed to the Jews?

[mfblume]

You maybe right. I know that is the going idea. But, so you know where I am coming from, I was reading Colossians by itself and noting the Judaistic influence that was a constant threat. I read of no gnostic attacks in Acts.

Originally Posted by mfblume

You maybe right. I know that is the going idea. But, so you know where I am coming from, I was reading Colossians by itself and noting the Judaistic influence that was a constant threat. I read of no gnostic attacks in Acts.

You probably won't hear about Gnostic in Acts. Acts was a historical narrative of the first 30 years of the Church. Colossians was written around 60-62 A.D. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to discredit your point, I'm going by what most scholars claim.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Believer

You probably won't hear about Gnostic in Acts. Acts was a historical narrative of the first 30 years of the Church. Colossians was written around 60-62 A.D. Don't get me wrong, I not trying to discredit your point, I'm going by what most scholars claim.

Oh no, I understand what you are saying. But what is the evidence these scholars have for this gnostic issue? I understand nothing exists in the form of writing at all outside the biblical books from that era of the early church.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Oh no, I understand what you are saying. But what is the evidence these scholars have for this gnostic issue? I understand nothing exists in the form of writing at all outside the biblical books from that era of the early church.

Not sure how to answer this. There were plenty of letters written that never made it into the Canon in the 1st and 2n century.

Originally Posted by Believer

There were three purposes in Paul's mind as he wrote Colossians. What was the purpose of the first two chapters and how does it fit in the Oneness perspective?

Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Ok, 84 viewers and no repsonses. How about if the question was changed???

If this text were read for what it literally states, what does it say?

1. For by who all things were created?
2. All things have been created though and by whom?
3. Who was before all things?
4. Who is the image of the invisible God?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I think these verses really tell us just how important the Sonship is, and without the Son, we won't be able to be rid of sin.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I think these verses really tell us just how important the Sonship is, and without the Son, we won't be able to be rid of sin.

So you disagree with the plain reading of the text?